Remember all the IN-THE-WATER talk on THT???

[JETTYWOLF]

I know some of you have to remember all the talk about flushing your outboard on THT, not all that long ago.

I think it was Broadcove (??) not sure, but that name rings a bell. That was building a cabin 26' BLM and said that it would sit in the cove for the entire season and the engine would never be flushed??

Well I had my t-stats changed on my Honda and water pump today and only wish I could charge that kinda money for charter fishing.

And what does the mechanic ask me???

"do you flush your engine ever??? I was almost wanting to kick his teeth in. I didn't buy my boat off some lot last night!!

I replied, "yes...and you can also eat wet scambled eggs off my deck, that boats so clean!"

"Because your T-stats were shot and they looked really corroded-up." he says....

Mind you I have a fellow charter fisherman friend that has had the same T-stats and water pump in his Honda 225 for three years, thats (3) YEARS!!

So, that leads me to believe if you NEVER flush your engine ever, for months on end, when you pull it out of the water finally when the ice comes. You'll need to offset that no flushing ever, with 2- new t-stats and a new water pump each winter(??)

Not wanting to start the same debate all over again, just making an observation.

And a conclusion to an old debate.

-you have to pay to play.

[Ironwoodtuna]

Dave, I would say I would look into the Anti-Salt Flush Kit with the special anti-salt flush fluid to use, I think that when you just run fresh water and the motor sits out where the ports are exposed to the air, it can't help but corroid more than if it is left in the water and those breathing ports and intake ports are sealed by water even if its salt water. I beat if you use he anti-salt rise fluids you will cease to have any problems. I don't know if anyone has a different opinion or would agree with my thoughts. Marty

[JETTYWOLF]

I'm just wondering if it was a isolated incident that a T-stat was sticking or what. That I had.

Never have I had a problem in 25 years with a hot running engine.

May look into doing that stuff, from time to time, but when I'm really cookin' I fish 3-5 days a week, and flush the motor 3-5 days a week.

[Heavy Metal]

Dave, Just thought I'd pass this on, might or might not help you out.
__________________________________________________________

Honda's dont need to be running to Flush...Is there a downside?

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Hi All,I just got back from a day at water, and at the launch ramp I noticed a fellow with a brand new Honda on his Whaler. He pulled his rig over to the boat wash area and hooked up the hose to the engine. Honda's don't have to be run to flushed.
This method of flushing's been around for a long time. The large Yammi's have it as do the Johnson's I believe. Yes its easier, but I'd still rather use the muffs myself. Flushing via a port will flush the head passages, but it doesn't flush the water pump assembly. A lot of times the water pump will inhale silt and other debris at the boat ramp. The water around the ramp is usually churned up from all the trailer traffic. The manual my say differently, but I prefer to flush ALL of the passages when I flush. Salt is a killer. I also like to run the engine while flushing to the point where it warms up and the T-stats open. This way they get flushed too, as well as the cooling passages hiding behind them.

[JETTYWOLF]

No engine I've owned since they came up with a Flushing adapter, have I hooked up the ars and ran it. And this is the first time I've had a T-stat problem.

I'd have to consult a Honda Guru on the fact that flushing with the adapter doesn't put water thru the t-stat or water pump. My problem was t-stat more than water pump....and when they don't open right, hence the water pump problem.

[BroadCove]

Dave - I just saw this, and it was indeed me who posted on THT about flushing. And no, like most Mainers, I never flush my engine except at the end of the season. I've only got one season on the new Suzuki, and it didn't need any special work at the end of the first season (er, except for replacing the lower unit, but that was the captain's fault - darn rocks). Maybe it's the cold water.

[JETTYWOLF]

Yep, I knew it was you. And you just saw this post NOW????

Ya need to get around a bit more. :lol: :lol:

Well my friend. I use my boat a lot, A LOT!

And according to the Honda mechanic he said my engine was getting hot on one side, hotter than the other side....whatever.

And that "they" replace t-stats everytime they replace water pumps.

NEVER EVER had a t-stat problem in my entire boating career. Can't say that about Trucks though.

All I know is my engine sits on the flusher for upwards of 30 minutes or more when still hot (I live 5 minutes from the boat ramp) while I take the rods and stuff out of it each day after I'm out.

I don't think it's the temp or the water......maybe it didn't like my well water?

Personally, I would be not worried, but apparently aware that T-stats and all that Jazz could and may not last all that long as a washed out every day o/b engine.

But then again, my t-stats ruined the water pump which in turn lasted just
14 months.....previously in my offshore fishing life years ago, when I trolled for endless hours and ran for long distances, I never "HAD" to change a water pump inside of 14 months.

It's a big "go figure"????

So your boat is relatively new right? A what? 26 cabin model?
Where's your photos on the....."here's my boat forum??"

[skypoke]

Jettywolf,

Your post made me decide to pop the tstats out of my 150's while doing the 400 hour service. Mine were a bit crudded up too but on closer inspection it was just surface deposits which easily scraped off. Thass a brass unit inside an aluminum housing. I'm thinking these were mineral deposits rather than salt.

Had the engines decoweled, valve covers off, lower units pulled in less than two hours. It was a new experience working on 3 year old saltwater engines and being able to break bolts loose, give a turn with the wrench and then unscrew by hand. This includes the lower unit bolts. Valve adjustment was about another hour for both engines, all were within spec with go-no gauges but I reset a few of them aiming for perfection. These Hondas are very easy to work on. Replaced all filters on engines, checked everything over real good for signs of evil and am very pleased at total lack of corrosion on the uncowled powerheads and drives. I'd been concerned because the paint job on the outside is a bit underwhelming, nowhere near as good as Yamaha's. I do keep them well hosed down with LPS3 under the hood.

So, major service done. With new iridium spark plugs at 12.00 ea., the tab is right at 300.00 for both, including water pump impellers but not counting a 12 of Lone Star. Pondering the engines in their naked glory is pleasing to a gearhead like me. Those Hondas are well put together.

Chuck

[JETTYWOLF]

Okay now come do the same on mine. I have 506 hrs in my year and a half and I bet I could spend just short of a grand on one engine if I took it in to a $95 an hour mechanic.

Because they always find something wrong...just as I can always find fault in how customers are fishing on my boat. But I'm not there to critisize, just help.

Why do I feel everytime I go to a O/B mechanic, I'm at fault or blamed for something?

I use the boat and the engine. Isn't that what it's intended purpose is?

I guess they teach them in school to be azzholes, in that class "dealing with customers 101".

I absolutely dread being at the beconed call and bent over with open wallet.

I still have not found a Honda shop here in my town that's making me all warm and fuzzy inside.

Come on over and I'll take ya fishing before "we" do the work in my garage and under my boat port...I'll find some LoneStar somewhere's???

Why is it as owners that my sentiments resinate across the whole country, because I read these same comments everywhere?

Is it that I have a 60K boat, 60K in fishing equipment and hefty insurance bills also, but no "brick and mortar shop" and cannot get $95 an hour when dealing with 4 non-fisherman on my boat for upwards of 8 hrs a day?? Been to 4 different Captain schools, am Licenced, drug screened, and have over 25 years experience.

But a repair shop can. Thats what pisses me the hell off!

If so that charter would be $760 which no one will pay. But if I take my engine to a mechanic tomarrow, I bet I can drop $760 in about 4 hrs!!!!!!!

Rip off in my book.

That's why I need a cheif mechanic and gear head like you on the Jettywolf Team.

[AlloyToy]

I once towed my mechanic in. He was testing a customers boat when the lower unit froze in reverse. He waived me down, and begged for a tow in, threw me a $100 credit, and now jumps threw hoops when I go to his shop.

Whom was an azz now turned into a great friend..............

But I do see him being an azzzz ho to many others :D They have something you need end of story..............like outboard prostitutes :D

[JETTYWOLF]

Like Insurance companies.......it's called EXTORSION!

Skypoke,

Do you have any pics of where the T-stats are.
On my 225 Honda, I'm thinking take off the top plastic piece and then there's two rubber elbow's on each side, and on the top the t-stats are in that housing. But I'm not an engineer nor a mechanic. But am a quick learner.

Welder and I did talk one time that if we could get ahold of entire schematics for the various OB engines we could have a forum set up as a PDF file and people could go look at the shop manual and exploded version of various engines/sections.

Man, now that would make us here at AAB.com unique. And would be a big help to all.

here's some notes of interest:
http://www.honda-marine.com/pdfs/news/H ... ved-Oi.pdf

http://www.honda-marine.com/pdfs/news/H ... SI.rev.pdf

http://www.honda-marine.com/about/press ... 0030501_01

[skypoke]

I have never taken any of my vehicles to a pro mechanic and been 100% satisfied with the outcome. With outboard motors in particular, I want to be able to turn my own wrenches and live with the outcome. I just haven't been impressed with any of em. So, I buy the service manuals and dig in.

Those thermostats are right on top of the engine. Take off the plastic cover and you'll see where the hoses go in, the cover has three bolts in em. The stats are only a little bigger than a nickel and take some very gentle bumping and prying to unseat them. I didn't replace mine cause they looked ok once cleaned up a bit. They're pretty expensive items, I'm going to look mine over real well and see if I can find an automotive substitute which is pretty common with Honda parts.

All this is great IF you got the time. I like the feeling of being self sufficient in things mechanical so it's worth it for me. I also feel like I do a better job than is likely even at 95.00 an hour for a pro mech. Course for a guy in your line of work who's gotta be on the boat, on time, all the time, if you got a mech who does good work and will shove your rig to the head of the line there's value there. You gotta sleep some time.

The charter industry is one tough way to make a living, I know. Lots of buds into it and none rich yet. I got asked for a quote to provide offshore services for a scientist at a local Univ and sat down and figured what it really costs to run my boat. Holy Doo-doo! When you figure in life expectancy on engines, wear and tear on boat, insurance, dockage, trailer, fuel, limited lifespan electronics, depreciation etc. I was bumpin right up against 100.00/hr.

The Honda service manual costs around 125.00 but is very well written and explained. Unfortunately Honda's HDS handheld engine scanner is not really available for individuals so when it comes to tracing down a failed sensor or something you have to do it with blink codes which are explained well also. Don't know how it would be possible to put this online though I'm always happy to help out a fellow AAB'er if I can.

Chuck

[JETTYWOLF]

Yep. I have to get the manuals myself in the near future. My dad's like you, he can break down a Motorcycle, especially a BMW with one I shut and the other closed. And rebuilt everything from Katrina submerged Harley's to rust bucket 20 year old Beamers.

So I have a good mechanical mind in my corner.

Yeah. I saw where the t-stats go in. My last adventure, which started this thread was fun...and found a service shop that the mechanic said to me they do not change water pumps without changing T-stats.

That's the first I heard of that. He said, he likes to do it all to make sure. Which makes sense unless your paying the $95 an hour. EZ for him to say, right?

I will be doing all that myself from now on, as I have on every engine from OMC to Yamahas. Just do not know the in's & out's of water pumps, t-stats etc on the honda but will get the manual and find out.

You sound like my kinda guy Chuck. Clear thinking, and able.

I'm not always clear thinking (business whoa's always on my mind) but I am able. And have the time, unfortunately.

Because how do ya make a million dollars in the charter biz?
-Start with 2 million.

[warthog5]

I absolutely dread being at the beconed call and bent over with open wallet.

You pretty much answered this in a above post.

Buy the manual. THE FACTORY MANUAL! Do not buy and waste your money on a aftermarket manual like Solo or Clamer.


As a example: I have all the factory manual's for my C-90 Yamaha,DF-140 Suzuki's, '98 Lincoln Mk VIII, '94 F-150.

While that represents a fair amount of investment, 1hr of shop time easily pays for each one them.

I have a flush port in my Suzzy's. I never use it. I always flush on the Muffs and have high water pressure here at the house. I can flush both motors on a "Y" at the same time.

Thermostats are one of those things that have nooks and cranny's. They do tend to collect deposits and can get gunk ed up.

[Bullshipper]

The thermostats in my mercs are so thin and delicate that I have always felt that their design is to insure repeated service call$ at the dealer.

I am wondering if a little vinegar presoak might help once in a while to disolve Ca and Mg deposits prior to a regular fresh water flush that nail the other more soluble salts.

[JETTYWOLF]

I have to say, because of my supposed T-stats going bad.....Bullsh-t, I think.

I have been doing a regular run of Salt-X thru the engine, let it soak over night and then use the boat.

I also have been de-salting the entire boat after super windy days blowing spray all over us, the boat and my tackle.

The crap ain't cheap, does a good job so it seems on the tackle. We'll see because at the end of this summer it's time to do a water pump again and I guess a T-stat change.

Just had my mechanic mind (dad) over the house a few minutes ago and asked him about helping doing some stuff on the Honda, with factory manual of course.

CHUCK, he was wondering if lifter adjustment is like his old BMW motorcycle, where you change the springs for desired tension, or is the Honda, a feeler and a screw 'em down or up adjustment. I told him zero is probably like an old 80's BMW motorcycle anymore.

And when do I know I need to adjust them, per the manual? Or will I hear them?

How many Honda Car engines get the valves adjusted, by the average person?? A few??
Or is because of the high RPM's we do in the boat versus low RPMs in the same car engine?

Just getting ready...I have 506 hrs right now and all is great.

[Bullshipper]

I may be wrong, but I think the honda valves are self adjusting, aren't they?

[Bullshipper]

...

[JETTYWOLF]

Skypoke said this......

"Valve adjustment was about another hour for both engines, all were within spec with go-no gauges but I reset a few of them aiming for perfection."

I read each individual post.

So?

I guess not?

Hell what do I know?

[skypoke]

Self adjusting? Only if they have a mechanical arm with a feeler gauge and 10mm wrench that jumps into action when needed. Some of the other brands are shim and bucket but I know of no outboard with hydraulic lifters.

Chuck

[welder]

I may be wrong, but I think the honda valves are self adjusting, aren't they?

Jeff, as far as I know Honda is the only OB that you can adjust with out pulling the cam out .

Honda = real simple to do.

[IN2DEEP]

So the Honda's have a rocker arm type set-up with adjusting screws and lock nuts then?

BTW, my little Yamaha kicker has rocker arms and adjusting screws.
My Merc/Yamaha powerheaded OB has a little over a 1000 hrs. and my mechanic doesn't think it needs adjusting until you hear tappet noise.

Scott

[welder]

Scott, I have also been told not to worry till I hear a differant noise or notice something .

I think basically all the newer motors are AWESOME as far as maint. goes, when they 1st came out the factory's want Valve check's very soon as ALL these motors were new to the outboard market and now they are proving them selves as GREAT peices of equipment.

Hence...............Run what ya brung, lets go Fishing.

:D

And yes , loosen lock nut , adjust and move on.

[Bullshipper]

[quote="welder"][quote="Bullshipper"]I may be wrong, but I think the honda valves are self adjusting, aren't they?[/quote]

Jeff, as far as I know Honda is the only OB that you can adjust with out pulling the cam out .

Honda = real simple to do.[/quote]

I must need a new hard disk for a brain, because I recall a salesman telling me that the valves were hdraulic/selfadjusting, or something like that.

Imagine that, da Bullshipper getting Bullshitted big time.

[welder]

Bull, remember, if you can't laugh at yourself......................































Laugh at someone else. :lol:

Most of the other big block out boards you have to pull the cam to get to the shims , the honda is just like a car motor . Loosen the jamb nut then adjust .
Bing bang, your done. :D

There is a Honda BF225 with everything included for sale down in the FOR SALE forum for 11.5K