Elite 9m plumb bow new build

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chocolatemoose
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:42 am
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Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#1

Post by chocolatemoose »

Hi all. Really glad i found an ally forum, im looking forward to showing the crazy journey i have been on for a year, working with designers, planning, and now constructing a new 9mt plate aluminum boat.

I thought i would just upload photos of the process without putting down every single thought i had a long the way and then if anyone has any questions. id be happy to answer.

Thank you again for the add

Original idea sketches

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first 3d renders and ideas on the computer

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The design was there.. i was a long way from making it look proportional and sexy and working all the ins and outs . but its a start
chocolatemoose
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:42 am
2

Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#2

Post by chocolatemoose »

A lot of discussions and ideas and just totally out there thoughts went in and out of some designs .. and this was the next phase of the computer designs.

Some key elements really started to make the design sit like this
We wanted to install a Quick DC gyro, as well as a rather comprehensive Mastervolt system. the room required for these and the engine start batteries meant storage in the center of the boat was key, this also set the floor height of the saloon.
happily, that raises the saloon to allow a water trap lip from the cockpit, the cockpit floor also has a 1o downward slope to the rear of the boat to aid the self draining deck.


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Chaps
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#3

Post by Chaps »

That's a beaut . . . plumb stem gives it a classic look . . . though might it be a rather blunt instrument at speed in typical offshore conditions?
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
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kmorin
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#4

Post by kmorin »

choc'moose,
Welcome to the AAB.com Forum, thanks for posting your design build project.

Do you have the Plan View lines- showing the waterlines in a 1' or 1/2' increment to the sheer? I think it would be interesting to see the volume change in waterline/water plane outlines from the top? How does she do when pitched down by the bow (wave action) in longitudinal stability compared to level waterline? Seems like the finer entry going almost to (the panel with more flam at) the fore deck-line would make the long stab. much lower than would be at rest?

Most NW Pacific builders go for a raked stem and much more 'spoon' in the forward third to keep the pitch by the bow relatively high; in order to help keep their boats as dry as possible in a head sea that's taller than the bow stem. With a finer entry, nearly plumb stem AND a raked aft windscreen, depending on the weather you're fishing; she looks like she could take a 'green one' on the glass?

What longitudinal structural provisions are you adding/planning to allow the (side) doors in the topsides? We've seen quite a few boats crack in the lower corners of the doors in the sides due to inadequate planning/designing/building/scantlings of this area; is the reason I'm asking.

Interesting design, hope we get to watch her design finalize and the building process progress from keel up? Thanks again for posting.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
chocolatemoose
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:42 am
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#5

Post by chocolatemoose »

Thanks for the welcome everyone

Things have been progressing a fair bit. with a bunch of interior layout changes and adding/subtracting to keep weight to the correct level. whilst also trying to make it a rather polished project.

This was my original draft computer image BTW
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We wanted something a bit different from the usual bum. i really like the portofino style transoms seen on euro boats often and a bit of curve and flare is appriciated for sure.
As mentioned earlier we also liked this centre walk through idea instead of a port or stardboard door. this gives us two even compartments either side. Well one had to be the livewell for sure and the other we wanted use for tackle storage
The motif with this boat is that everything had to have a "home" we didnt want open pockets anywhere, places where things just get chucked. we wanted everything to be neat m, tidy. and lockable.

The live well
Its 70lt with a folding baffle/divider in the middle should it be needed. We opted not to paint the interior owing to it just being hard to get it to keep that colour and a prick to ever repaint. so instead we just planed for a raw acid-washed nylac allumiun with blue LED lights. the lid does slope down a bit , this overall shape does reduce the amount of water we can have but "BEAUTY IS PAIN"
We did cleverly get the overflow and drain plumbed down and into the Scupper tubes. so we wouldnt have water flowing over the back of the boat onto the swim platform or over the side of the boat onto the paint work.
There is a stylish viewing window on the inside of the transom

The tackle storage locker
We work very closely with Plaztek in QLD. they have done several boards for us in the past "after we decided that making them ourselves was just not economical" And we have enlisted them to come up with a tackle storage locker that suits the dimensions
we had about 500x 500x 700 to play with and liked the cupboard door idea . when open having a rack of slide out draws on one side and Plano tackle storage slides on the other. locked behind a single lock door.
This was more cost-effective than our fabricator producing it in alloy and supports another Australian manufacture.

under the transom on the left is a receptacle for the salt water wash down hose. and on the right is a tilted storage locker to fit a folded up freezer bag "name a brand, they are all the same" the centre of the transom holds 110lt fresh water tank

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chocolatemoose
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:42 am
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#6

Post by chocolatemoose »

a few things that we did change that were kinda major

We originaly had her at 2.5 beam to keep it legal on a trailer here in australia. though with a few additional flags we are still legal at 2.8mt beam, and a boat thats 9mt having a bit more beam would prove to be nicer in the water. sit better at rest. allow for more space inside, i would of liked to have gone to 2.9mt beam though that would of become a bit tricky.

We also played around with layouts.

We opted to make the head forward transverse to give more standing room inside. from that we were also able to put two single bunks bow/stern orientation, one either side of the center companionway. the port bunk slides under the dinette. whilst the starboard bunk slides forward into the head area "sealed of cause"

One thing thats always been a bit .. squishy, is when you are away fishing long-range and overnighting. and two. or three ofyou have to squish together on a V berth up front. with this configuration, we can have people sleep in their own private buisness class berths. with draw curtains, reading lights, USB sockets etc. without disturbing anyone else. during the day it doubles as a lower level lounge with half of each bunk facing each other as a two person couch. I will make sure there is some accent and mood lighting of cause :P
chocolatemoose
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:42 am
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#7

Post by chocolatemoose »

we do have some interesting plumbing on board. Forward in the saloon is a galley hot and cold water sink and a hot and cold sink in the forward Head. Though to keep the dirty hands and all that in the business end we were looking to include a couple of these knee or hip activated timed hand wash systems over the side of the boat. seen them a few times on some other boats and they look liek a very neat solution!
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chocolatemoose
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#8

Post by chocolatemoose »

So we wanted something a bit more 3 dimensional than standard dashes. i do a bit of work for riviera and always loved the captain position in larger boats. i figured build the geogramtry around a comfortable secure seating position when driving.

We were also rather limited on space behidn the dash due to the forward bunk rod storage. As such we wanted to keep everything to a minium behind the helm, and then have all the eletronics in a dedicated eletronics area under the helm seat.
In the dash we would have our Garmin 8416 with 2x HKI sigital switching panels. our Yamaha CL5 guage. our Quic kGyro display, zipwake controller, yamaha autopilot controller.. all of these ocnnect via NMEA2K or Ethernet. so the plan is to have a NEAM2K bus behind the helm and we should end up "even with joystick, steering etc" a rather small collection of cables coming out of the helm.



On the plynth we would have the yamaha joystick and a cup holder.
Getting whats what where it needed to be was a bit of just a case of moving things around to see where they would fit.. and where they would be easy to operate from. especially from a sitting position.
The helm seat itself was going to be able to tilt forward. exposing a 240 induction cook top and extra counter space for the galley. so we looked at ways to have the armrest on the starbaord side fold along with it.
the armrest was going to house the throttles. the GRID Garmin remote , wireless charging dock for phones . we moved around the joystick, zipwake etc from all these locations a few times

The one thing i was really keen on with this design was to NOT use an off the shelf standard marine seat.. even if we could retrim.. i wanted to have something solid and build to the design of the boat. whilst being stupidly comfy and big to sit in "im no little person nor is the client" i reflected a bit on my Caribbean 2400 build we did 2 years ago where their OEM seats are built in-house and are crazy comfy. big wide solid secure. its a bit like your nanas couch

So with that in mind though i did want to have an armrest on either side to hold you in place as well as give you somewhere to lay your elbows. the port side had to be folded to allow easy egress etc to the seat. when looking at attachment options for the hinge on the seat we felt it look better to run a polished stainless frame around the back of the whole chair. this would also double as a bit of a splash guard for the sink behind. we havnt yet decided on any logos or names etc for this piece yet.

i almost forgot the compass in the dash at one point. so. popped that in real quick.
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chocolatemoose
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:42 am
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#9

Post by chocolatemoose »

kmorin wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:48 pm choc'moose,
Welcome to the AAB.com Forum, thanks for posting your design build project.

Do you have the Plan View lines- showing the waterlines in a 1' or 1/2' increment to the sheer? I think it would be interesting to see the volume change in waterline/water plane outlines from the top? How does she do when pitched down by the bow (wave action) in longitudinal stability compared to level waterline? Seems like the finer entry going almost to (the panel with more flam at) the fore deck-line would make the long stab. much lower than would be at rest?

Most NW Pacific builders go for a raked stem and much more 'spoon' in the forward third to keep the pitch by the bow relatively high; in order to help keep their boats as dry as possible in a head sea that's taller than the bow stem. With a finer entry, nearly plumb stem AND a raked aft windscreen, depending on the weather you're fishing; she looks like she could take a 'green one' on the glass?

What longitudinal structural provisions are you adding/planning to allow the (side) doors in the topsides? We've seen quite a few boats crack in the lower corners of the doors in the sides due to inadequate planning/designing/building/scantlings of this area; is the reason I'm asking.

Interesting design, hope we get to watch her design finalize and the building process progress from keel up? Thanks again for posting.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
Hi Kevin, ill try and answer them one by one :P

I dont have a plan view on hand . ill get one loaded up shortly. there is a very sharp lower entrance to the water , a bit wave piercer. tapering to a 8o deadrise at the stern.
we have a slightly stern heavy pitch atm. with COM situated at the 50% mark with half tank full. with that increasing to a slight bias to the rear of the boat. we do have a slight flare as well to the top of the hull sides to aid in deflection for big waves.
We do have the added benifit of size/boyancy. there is A LOT of hul up front. and with the plumb bow it would raise up with boyancy earlier on. Ill post a video shortly of similar boat in 7mt guise and its performance.

as for structure. This boat is build more like a ship than a boat. here in australia/NZ is comming to have bottom two plates come together folded or pressed into shape and welded along the keel . then hull plates welded down onto the chine , then some rib/stringer structure welded into the floor and a few braces up the side. we are building this boat with a single piece 8mm keel. "which also aids with directional stability" and then bulkheads/frames. and rib structure all up the side. see picture below that hopefully makes a bit more sense.

this also lends itself to the sidedoor/swim platform. the door is situated between two of these bulkhead frames.

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kmorin
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#10

Post by kmorin »

Choc'moose, replies to the last post and renewed remarks from previous ones.
chocolatemoose wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:27 am tapering to a 8o deadrise at the stern.
I think its pretty common here, Pacific NW in USofA to measure dead rise from the horizontal line outboard the keel (baseline to some) and then measure upward to the chine so that seems to translate from your "80 (?) deadrise" to 10 degs deadrise? Unless that was 8 degrees? at which time it's even less (!)- but the symbols weren't completley clear as I read the post.

In the roaring days of mahogany power boat racing early in the last century, Gar Woods, Hacker, Chris Craft, Dodge and later Carlos Riva and Co. all used very low deadrise bottoms with a very flat chine forward. All the boats were, of course, primary fresh water boats and there were many hours in an average day those bodies of water were flat calm so the pounding of that class of hull, with little deadrise amidships, wasn't intolerable.

The WWII Elco and Higgens built PT boats used this same bottom (approximate lines) and had the roughest ride afloat if the waves were just a few feet high.

Here in the North Pacific performance boats, almost all plate aluminum boats have at least 12-15 degrees at the stern, many boats in this class have 15-20 deg. and their chines raises increasing its ht above keel in Profile View-especially from amidships forward; increasing the V forward to double and even triple the V at the stern. When the planing hull's running waterline leading edge moves aft to 1/3 (approx) LOA behind the bow; that's where 85% of the running bottom impact or entry will be expressed in this size boat moving a speed in even a short chop or wind ripple.

Your angle of entry at this point (about amidships) is relatively flat and I suspect she will pound fiercely in head sea at 2/3 to 3/4 throttle?

The same is true of a plumb vs raked stem... The issue being time vs immersion and the result is 'ride' that very hard to define item but easily felt in your legs. The time to immerse a plumb stem is shown in its Profile. All at once, not much of any extension of time vs immersion. One reason the Cigarette boats (in general all the open ocean racing hulls) all have such extremely raked bow stems- maybe the could be called 'all forefoot and no stem'?- is to give the hull as much time to add the wetting drag and the immersion of deeper waterlines before the forward momentum can bleed off and to reduce the deceleration rate coming down! As I understand the shape by Don Aronow the Deep V helps to reduce slamming along with a raked stem to allow the boat to pitch/lift/buoy up before its wetted to the sheer?

Since a 30-40 knot planing hull is entering wave faces where the 'time' I'm exploring is in parts of a second or a few seconds at best.... deceleration to a near stop in a short time, and resulting in a huge pitch by the bow- seems like less comfortable ride from this hull shape? As Chaps put it:
Chaps wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:50 am though might it be a rather blunt instrument at speed in typical offshore conditions?
Would be interesting to see her Plan View waterlines but I think the inverted framing perspective tells the story.

As to the door, the boats we've repaired that were cracked below the door's corners were framed very similarly to what you show. From the cracks we repaired the issue was bending moment fore and aft not transversely so xverse frames aren't very influential. The issue seemed to be the loads - so perhaps not being planned for commercial deck loads you won't seen the hulls bending moment pass the lower topsides elastic limits. The boats I can recall were either landing craft or 'dive boats' where the loading on deck may have raised the waterlines enough that fore and aft buoyancy forces were greater? Surely the greater mass underway would have been a change in longitudinal loading. Either way, we ended up repairing by making box beams inside the chine to deck areas that extended fore and aft the door to insure the loss of topsides section modulus (cut out in the 'beam' of the chine to sheer side) didn't allow the cracks to reoccur.

So that is why I was asking about the longitudinal framing under the topsides door.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
chocolatemoose
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:42 am
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#11

Post by chocolatemoose »

Very detailed post Kevin! thank you for taking the time for that :)

Always interesting with hull design, Here in australia we have a big love affair with Ray Hunt derived hulls. "not that im a beliver in things were perfected then and dont warrent contemporary thought" but a lot of our glass builders and to a degree ally builders here love the 21o deadrise hulls.
interestingly our hull design is 21o 2mt from the stern of the boat. the flat(er) aft section is to aid in stability at rest, which most 21o deadrise trailer boats suffer poorly from. though we make no intention of being a fast rough weather boat. The piercing sharpness we fluidtested to just allow us to break wave surfaces and reduces the up/down time to lessen impact.

We have this hull form in a 7mt "see attached video from the shipyard" not that any of the videos show rough weather. We shall see :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSl8lu7 ... erleyBoats
chocolatemoose
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Re: Elite 9m plumb bow new build

#12

Post by chocolatemoose »

Digitial switching

At first i was relucant to opt for digital switching in lew ofjust a very simple and neat bespoke wiring install . with then the option of having some pretty nice custom switch panels as well.

However as more and more components and systems were added to the build "acturators, motor drives, various lighting systems etc." and with less and less room behind the dash we re opened the discussion with czone and their sister brands as to what we could do for this boat

BEP recently released a new Smart Hub battery switch system, that combinds their motorized switches and czone battery monitoring into one super neat unit
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These are an amazing piece of kit that are really seeing a lot of traction in the US centre console scene with tripple engine fit ups, Ours with only twins would mean we would have a centre battery switch left empty. though BEP came through wit hthe goods and informed us they are bringing out a dual engine version. which we will likley be the first in Australasia to have installed pretty happy with that.

Back to the switching side of things.

yes we will be able to have it programed into our Garmin MFD. which yeah is all well and good but only really effective on larger vessels. though various "mode" functions are kinda handy, ... pressing one button o nthe screen for "night time mode" etc.


But the client and i agree that having physical buttons that you can easily see/activate is nicer.

THOUGH! the Czones contact 6/12 buttons IMO look pretty terrible
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And there was no way i was going to let them be part of this dash design.
We also work with another digital switching company "Blink Australia:" who do produce a very neat compact switching system, and they were on my consideration list for this build. however a few things swayed me to Czone
1. Czones access to fuses in their COI and Contact panels is alot easier
2. Czone allwos for up to 16 circuits in their COI systems where as other modules are only 6 to 8 depending on amps
3. we can intergrate our czone switching with Siren marine or Cenital marine cloud based vesse monitoring and control the boatsoperation from anywhere in the world
4. Czone can intergrate easily with our mastervolt inverter, charger, lithium battery set up etc

we opted then instead to use the HMI PKU switches "same style as blink but with NMEA2K czone intergration" these switches are a lot nicer, more tactile. they allow RGB illumination and programming with thousands of symbols and words. plus various surrounds to allow us to style it to the boat
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The plan will be for 2 12 ways on the dash and a single 8 way out in the cockpit.
we can program these switches to have slow starts for pumps "ramp up the current instead of full current straight away to protect their life span" multi mode per switch. so press one for live well timmed to 5 mins. press again for live well timed for 8 minuites. press again for live well on full, press again to turn off.. all with different colours to indicate what state its at.
can even have the winch switch timmed so press the down button twice to lower the anchor a certain length "anchors in the same depth/body of water often"

hold a light switch button down for dimming , press again to turn back to full brightness or off. that sort of stuff.

all in all. just fun toys for sure
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