I recently demo’ed a SeaWolf 30’ (www.seawolfmarine.com), and am considering getting one built. They have two power options, both costing the same amount, a Volvo Penta D6-370 or twin Yamaha 225’s. It seems like the majority of the boats up here in Alaska have outboards. I am interested in any opinions and if I am missing something.
Volvo Penta D6 350HP (the new ones are 370HP, but the performance should be similar)
Top speed 36 kts
24.7kts 9gph = 2.74 kmph or 3.15 mpg
27.3kts 10gph = 2.73 kmpg or 3.14 mpg
200 Gallons = 680 mile range
Pros:
Single motor for less things to go wrong. All information I have gotten on this motor is that it is very reliable.
Great fuel economy, and therefore great range and lower operating costs.
Some say that the inboard diesel rides better, since the weight is lower and farther forward.
Some complain about the smell and exhaust smoke. These common rail motors are amazing. They are relatively quiet, and I never even saw a puff of exhaust or smelled diesel fumes.
Lower center of gravity, and some say the IB diesel cuts the waves better, although the manfacture says they both ride about the same.
Cons:
I noticed a slight vibration when turning, which I was told was the U-joints and this is normal
Single motor, so I would be relying on the 9.9HP high thrust kicker if there was a major failure. This in itself is not bad, but it only as a 9 gal tank for gasoline, so it would have limited return range unless you put a larger tank in, or carried extra gas. I have also hear that there are diesel kickers, but the only one I could find was a Yanmar that is no longer being manufactured.
Outdrive, risk of failures, leaks, etc.
Twin Outboards 225 (These are from a Etecs. I think the Yamaha’s would be similar)
Top speed 40+ kts
28kts 17 gph 1.89 mpg
200 gallons = 378 mile range
Weight approximately 1100lbs less, could carry 150 gallons extra fuel, for a total range of 660 miles.
Pros:
Redundant power source, although I don’t think you could get on step with one motor.
Twin motors allow a bit better tight quarters handeling, but the VP duoprop outdrive is suppose to be really good, since it has dual counter rotating props.
Motors can be lifted out fo the water so that I can get ropes and fishing lines out when a tangle happens.
No winterizing, at least on the motors, although the water and other systems on the boat would still have to be winterized.
Lighter weight, by about 1100 lbs (if I don’t put a bunch more fuel on board for additional range.
More under deck storage since there is no diesel under the deck.
Easier repairs and maintenance, and eventual replacement.
Cons:
The mileage.
The motors in the way while fishing.
I want a rear helm station, and for this to work I would have to have electronic controls, which is a $7K option.
This will be a personal use boat for me and my family, hopefully for many years. I live in Alaska and I want to be able to go to Seward, Homer and Whittier on occasion (towing from 50 to 400 miles, depending on the port). I may want to go to Southeast Alaska at some point, but the main use would be weekend trips within 100 miles of port. The boat will be stored on a trailer.
Any comments? Are the outboards easy access, redundancy and no winterization really worth the hit in fuel economy? I have seen quite a few boats where people removed inboards and replaced them with outboards, but never the other direction. Is there a long term trend towards all outboards?
Thanks,
Jim
Twin Yamaha 225’s vs. Volvo Penta D6-370
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Shark Bait
- Donator 08, 11, 15, 17
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Jim: I may be starting a firestorm, but here goes. IMHO the F-225s are not one of the best motors Yamaha ever made, in fact they may be one of the worst. Same weight as the F-250 but far less HP and worse mileage- lots of technical reasons for this. I have read on multiple forums the F-225 is closer to 208HP than 225.
If you decide to go outboard I would strongly suggest F-250s or Suzuki DF-250s or DF-300s. They will be a little more money, but not that much more.
Additionally, since the DF-300s are fly-by-wire they are easy to set up on a second station.
SB
If you decide to go outboard I would strongly suggest F-250s or Suzuki DF-250s or DF-300s. They will be a little more money, but not that much more.
Additionally, since the DF-300s are fly-by-wire they are easy to set up on a second station.
SB
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JETTYWOLF
- Contributor/donator/Location Nazi
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- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:11 pm
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- Your location: JACKSONVILLE FL USA
- Location: Tree-hugger, USA...they call it FLA.
I have a stupid question.....
Diesel Fuel in the EXTREME cold? My dad had a diesel car, and we went to Vermont to go skiing. The car of course was parked outside the hotel.
It was below the teens the morning we all loaded up in that car, to head to the slopes.
No starty.....Fuel solidified, from the cold, single digits over night. That was the first time.
Yes, this was back in the 70's of course. But is that an issue still today.
Do people in the GREAT WHITE NORTH, (I can hear Geddy Lee, singing in my head.....) Have to put an additive in the tank or does Diesel still do that? AM I A CLUELESS WONDER
In my opinion, there's two O/B's to use....honda or Zuki. Honda because of it's proven track record, overall. Or a Zuki, because of the larger HP (300) and options.
Am I wrong or CLUELESS again, when it comes to outdrives and two rotating props, as being a Mechanics nightmare? Yamaha tried it on an outboard for a short time....now it's ancient history, (V-max bass boaters O/B). I guess Volvo's are proven to be reliable.
With fuel prices never going down, having extra in the boat and storing it in your extra tanks while the next fill up costs $20 more, around here we call that riding on last weeks prices.
You asked some really good questions, there. Very interesting.
We always want to see more Alaska Photos! Especially me here in the low flat land of Florida, where a boat ramp is a hill.
Marty is a diesel, Volvo, twin counter rotating outdrive, big alloy boater.....he should be along shortly. And will add in some details I'm sure.
-O/B alloyist in Florida.....possibly clueless too :lol: :lol: :lol:
Diesel Fuel in the EXTREME cold? My dad had a diesel car, and we went to Vermont to go skiing. The car of course was parked outside the hotel.
It was below the teens the morning we all loaded up in that car, to head to the slopes.
No starty.....Fuel solidified, from the cold, single digits over night. That was the first time.
Yes, this was back in the 70's of course. But is that an issue still today.
Do people in the GREAT WHITE NORTH, (I can hear Geddy Lee, singing in my head.....) Have to put an additive in the tank or does Diesel still do that? AM I A CLUELESS WONDER
In my opinion, there's two O/B's to use....honda or Zuki. Honda because of it's proven track record, overall. Or a Zuki, because of the larger HP (300) and options.
Am I wrong or CLUELESS again, when it comes to outdrives and two rotating props, as being a Mechanics nightmare? Yamaha tried it on an outboard for a short time....now it's ancient history, (V-max bass boaters O/B). I guess Volvo's are proven to be reliable.
With fuel prices never going down, having extra in the boat and storing it in your extra tanks while the next fill up costs $20 more, around here we call that riding on last weeks prices.
You asked some really good questions, there. Very interesting.
We always want to see more Alaska Photos! Especially me here in the low flat land of Florida, where a boat ramp is a hill.
Marty is a diesel, Volvo, twin counter rotating outdrive, big alloy boater.....he should be along shortly. And will add in some details I'm sure.
-O/B alloyist in Florida.....possibly clueless too :lol: :lol: :lol:
Diesel in the cold
The diesel works fine in the cold. I will run the boat in the summer only, but others run diesel trucks at -50F. There are two grades of diesel, summer and winter. The winter diesel has additives that make it so it will not gel in cold weather. The tradeoff is that you get lower mileage with it for some reason (and have even a higher price), but I don't think that I would ever use it.
Actually, if I choose outboards I would go with the Yamaha 250's at this point due to the same reasons shark bait lined out (weight vs. hp). I don't think they would even cost any more. Also, I keep hearing rumors that Yamaha is going to adapt their digital controls from the F350 and put them on the F250, but I have not seen a release date for this yet.
I did not put it down as a pro/con, but one thing that is in my head is 'going with the crowd'. It seems like most up here are running ourboards, and a large percentage of these are Yamahas. This makes me think that this would help when it comes time to sell the boat -- but I am not building a boat to sell it, I would build one to use for many years, although there is a chance that once I have it for a few years I decide on something else. When I press people why they go with outboards, some say that they do because this is what the guides all have. One advantage for the guides is that they run multiple boats with the same motors, and keep one spare at the shop. If they have troubles one day, they change out the motor overnight, and don't have any down time. Obviously this is not something I would do, so it does not play into my decision.
Any comments or questions are appreciated.
Jim
Actually, if I choose outboards I would go with the Yamaha 250's at this point due to the same reasons shark bait lined out (weight vs. hp). I don't think they would even cost any more. Also, I keep hearing rumors that Yamaha is going to adapt their digital controls from the F350 and put them on the F250, but I have not seen a release date for this yet.
I did not put it down as a pro/con, but one thing that is in my head is 'going with the crowd'. It seems like most up here are running ourboards, and a large percentage of these are Yamahas. This makes me think that this would help when it comes time to sell the boat -- but I am not building a boat to sell it, I would build one to use for many years, although there is a chance that once I have it for a few years I decide on something else. When I press people why they go with outboards, some say that they do because this is what the guides all have. One advantage for the guides is that they run multiple boats with the same motors, and keep one spare at the shop. If they have troubles one day, they change out the motor overnight, and don't have any down time. Obviously this is not something I would do, so it does not play into my decision.
Any comments or questions are appreciated.
Jim
Jim
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spoiled one
- Donator '08 '09 '10
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- Your location: Anchorage, Alaska
- Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Jim,
Your post is well thought out and it seems that really it is six of one half a dozen of the other, really. I prefer outboards. It is what I know and have had on all my other boats. If you DO go outboards and want to go yamaha, do not even consider the F225's (F208's). I really think you will find that the 250's will get better economy than the 225's. That has been what I have found in comparing my GC to another GC powered with F225's. The cost difference was not that much. The 250 is also available with a 30" shaft. This allows the extended transom to be set 5" higher than with the f225's with the 25" shaft. I want those powerheads as far from the water as possible. I don't agree with SB on the statement that the F225's are one of the worst engine yamaha made. They will run and run and run. They are very reliable from what I have found. They are just a weak 225. You really cannot go wrong with any of the outboards. It really just comes down to customer service. I have a great working relationship with the local yamaha dealer. It was a no brainer for me. I too have heard that the F250's will be getting the fly by wire.
The zukes really did pique my interest, though. I really like the big props and fly by wire controls. Plus, from what I can see, the mileage with the DF 300's will be very close to what I am gettting with the F250's. I just couldn't spend the extra $5k. I had already exceeded my "allowance" by about $20K.
One other thought. I was told by the local yamaha dealer to make sure that the motors are US motors not Canadian. If they are Canadian, they cannot/will not perform warranty work on them. They will be sent to Whitehorse. This was straight from the owner.
Good luck and enjoy the ride!
Pete
Your post is well thought out and it seems that really it is six of one half a dozen of the other, really. I prefer outboards. It is what I know and have had on all my other boats. If you DO go outboards and want to go yamaha, do not even consider the F225's (F208's). I really think you will find that the 250's will get better economy than the 225's. That has been what I have found in comparing my GC to another GC powered with F225's. The cost difference was not that much. The 250 is also available with a 30" shaft. This allows the extended transom to be set 5" higher than with the f225's with the 25" shaft. I want those powerheads as far from the water as possible. I don't agree with SB on the statement that the F225's are one of the worst engine yamaha made. They will run and run and run. They are very reliable from what I have found. They are just a weak 225. You really cannot go wrong with any of the outboards. It really just comes down to customer service. I have a great working relationship with the local yamaha dealer. It was a no brainer for me. I too have heard that the F250's will be getting the fly by wire.
The zukes really did pique my interest, though. I really like the big props and fly by wire controls. Plus, from what I can see, the mileage with the DF 300's will be very close to what I am gettting with the F250's. I just couldn't spend the extra $5k. I had already exceeded my "allowance" by about $20K.
One other thought. I was told by the local yamaha dealer to make sure that the motors are US motors not Canadian. If they are Canadian, they cannot/will not perform warranty work on them. They will be sent to Whitehorse. This was straight from the owner.
Good luck and enjoy the ride!
Pete
Spending my kids inheritance with them, one adventure at a time.
2010 AK Meet & Greet
2012 AK Meet and Greet
2010 AK Meet & Greet
2012 AK Meet and Greet
The volvo penta outdrive will not tip out of the water, and the water here is quite cold year round, so this is a definate advantage of the outboards. I run shrimp pots so there is the risk of tangling a line in the prop. I sometimes pull pots by myself, so this is a real risk of running over the line and tangling it. I even sucked it into my inboard jet intake once on my current boat, so I know I could do this with props back there.
Anyone with experience with both dual outboards and inboard diesel running in rough water? The builder says they both handle the same, but it seems like the center of gravity would be higher on the outboards, and the weight would be farther back which would require more trim.
Jim
Anyone with experience with both dual outboards and inboard diesel running in rough water? The builder says they both handle the same, but it seems like the center of gravity would be higher on the outboards, and the weight would be farther back which would require more trim.
Jim
Jim
I'm thinking the inboard will feel a bit more planted. My experience with em is typically in a somewhat stern heavy boat which will easily run bow high when trim tabs are eased off. Then you can charge on, taking wave impacts on belly area with lots of mass, smooth ride. As far as center of gravity, well I've never noticed it making much of a difference between one or the other though I guess a deep v narrow beam boat might show it up.
I'm a strong fan of outboards, having owned a single engine JT671 480 hp in a mono, I now have a cat with twin Hondas which I love. But the detroit diesel is not a valid comparison to your volvo setup. I hated the oil in the bilge and difficulty of service, problems with trailering, diesel stink, custom props heat exchangers etc. so I'm biased.
My son has run a 25' volvo dp alloy boat for a lodge in se Alaska for the last few years. He has nothing but good to say about em. I'd probably buy what will give me best fuel economy in long run. I'd also make darn sure that your builder has a strong system for installation, including corrosion prevention inside the hull around engine area.
Looking beyond performance there are advantages to outboards like easy and fast engine replacement if necessary, clean bilges with no thru hulls and great accessibility for inspection, smaller batteries and simpler maintenance overall, no thru hulls. I'd think heavier usage might favor the diesel, I wouldn't want to leave one setting idle for long periods if this is the case I'd go ob. Nice decision to be faced with, though! Good luck,
Chuck
I'm a strong fan of outboards, having owned a single engine JT671 480 hp in a mono, I now have a cat with twin Hondas which I love. But the detroit diesel is not a valid comparison to your volvo setup. I hated the oil in the bilge and difficulty of service, problems with trailering, diesel stink, custom props heat exchangers etc. so I'm biased.
My son has run a 25' volvo dp alloy boat for a lodge in se Alaska for the last few years. He has nothing but good to say about em. I'd probably buy what will give me best fuel economy in long run. I'd also make darn sure that your builder has a strong system for installation, including corrosion prevention inside the hull around engine area.
Looking beyond performance there are advantages to outboards like easy and fast engine replacement if necessary, clean bilges with no thru hulls and great accessibility for inspection, smaller batteries and simpler maintenance overall, no thru hulls. I'd think heavier usage might favor the diesel, I wouldn't want to leave one setting idle for long periods if this is the case I'd go ob. Nice decision to be faced with, though! Good luck,
Chuck
Texian, born and bred.
Winterizing, when you do it once a year on an IO is not much of an inconvenience. Having to do it a few times a year if you use your boat in cold weather is an irritation.
Have you considered a single f350 with electronic controls with a second helm in the cockpit? The 16 inch prop on the 350 really digs in. Put an f20 or 40 on for a kicker. Just remember that Yamaha only builds 30 inch kickers in 8 and 9.9.
Someone wrote here, recently that Seawolf was out a few months on a build date. The 350 may have a big brother by then.
Good boat choice.
Have you considered a single f350 with electronic controls with a second helm in the cockpit? The 16 inch prop on the 350 really digs in. Put an f20 or 40 on for a kicker. Just remember that Yamaha only builds 30 inch kickers in 8 and 9.9.
Someone wrote here, recently that Seawolf was out a few months on a build date. The 350 may have a big brother by then.
Good boat choice.
Armstrong 29 with Yamaha F350
I would not do a single F350, since I think it would be under powered. The diesel option is 370 HP, but it is 650 ft lbs of torque. I have not found any towque ratings for the Yamaha outboards, but I assume that they are around the HP rating, at best.
With the Diesel inboard I would get a 9.9 high thrust motor as a kicker. This is enough to control the boat and make it run at 6kts or so, so it is a reasonable backup.
For me one of the real, pr perceived advantages of the outboard option is going to twins, which I would loose if I went to an F350 or larger.
I hear that you cannot get a F250 right now, and the factory is not producing them right now. I am hoping that they are adapting the fly by wire from the F350 to the F250, but no one can confirm this. As it is, to have my rear helm, which is a necessity for me, it means I would have to use after market fly by wire controls such as Morse, which is about a $7k option.
Jim
With the Diesel inboard I would get a 9.9 high thrust motor as a kicker. This is enough to control the boat and make it run at 6kts or so, so it is a reasonable backup.
For me one of the real, pr perceived advantages of the outboard option is going to twins, which I would loose if I went to an F350 or larger.
I hear that you cannot get a F250 right now, and the factory is not producing them right now. I am hoping that they are adapting the fly by wire from the F350 to the F250, but no one can confirm this. As it is, to have my rear helm, which is a necessity for me, it means I would have to use after market fly by wire controls such as Morse, which is about a $7k option.
Jim
Jim
Yes, Suzuki is an option. It seems like 90% of the outboards I see on boats here are Yamaha though. I checked on the dealers, and there are two in town, one of which is owned by a guy I have known for years, so I will have to give him a call. Since the boat is being built in Washington, the motors would be purchased and installed there, but I would want to know that I have good local support options. Shark Bait's boat has the 300's on it and he lives near me, so maybe he can comment on if he has any knowledge about the local dealers.
Since I want the rear helm, I really need to consider the Suzuki, either 250 or 300's if Yamaha does not announce fly by wire on the F250's in the next couple of months.
As for the stink of diesel, we demo'ed this boat with a Volvo Penta D6, and I was amazed of the lack of smoke or diesel smell. My wife is very 'smell sensitive' too, so that would be a concern with the diesel, especially the first time I get it on me fueling.
Since I want the rear helm, I really need to consider the Suzuki, either 250 or 300's if Yamaha does not announce fly by wire on the F250's in the next couple of months.
As for the stink of diesel, we demo'ed this boat with a Volvo Penta D6, and I was amazed of the lack of smoke or diesel smell. My wife is very 'smell sensitive' too, so that would be a concern with the diesel, especially the first time I get it on me fueling.
Jim
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S L Dave
- Donator #1 '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13
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- Location: LA/Western NY
As you said Jim and Les, local service should be a major factor in the decision of choosing a motor(s).
When I lived in Upstate NY, all the dealers within 80 miles were Evinrude/Johnson or Mercury. While my Yamaha was very dependable, getting service and parts was a major pain in the a$$. When I bought a new Upstate boat, I bought a Merc to power it because the closest and best local service center is a Merc dealer.
When I lived in Upstate NY, all the dealers within 80 miles were Evinrude/Johnson or Mercury. While my Yamaha was very dependable, getting service and parts was a major pain in the a$$. When I bought a new Upstate boat, I bought a Merc to power it because the closest and best local service center is a Merc dealer.
"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."
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Shark Bait
- Donator 08, 11, 15, 17
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- Location: Eagle River Alaska
SO said "Shark Bait's boat has the 300's on it and he lives near me, so maybe he can comment on if he has any knowledge about the local dealers."
S.L. Dave and others are correct about the importance of having a qualified, reputable, servicing dealer close by when selecting power for your boat.
Having the latest, whiz bang engine on your boat is not a good thing if you can't get it serviced. In reality there is not a huge difference in any of the newer four stroke engines so having a good dealer nearby should be high in importance when selecting the engines.
The BIG difference in our market and those in America is in spite of the vast shoreline we have we have very, very few dealers - we have almost no choice.
Example - In Anchorage we have 2 (TWO) Suzuki dealers and 2 (TWO) Yamaha dealers and one of the dealers is the same as they sell and service both Suzuki and Yamaha's. Honda - only one, Mercury - yep only one. Now if you want to drive 125 to 150 miles there are a few more.
Example: A friend of mine runs a charter service out of Nilchick and he runs Verados. Since he has no servicing dealer nearby he has gone to the Mercury Verado school and is a factory certified Verado technician AND he has purchased all of the necessary service and test equipment to do almost every service on a Verado.
The other issue up here is that since we are such a captive market dealers and builders sometimes don't seem to give a s**t about the customer - why should they, they know you have nowhere else to go. I am told that the larger of the Yamaha dealers in Anchorage sells more Yamaha's than any other dealer in the nation and he has a reputation of being hard to deal with. I know it is hard to believe but I have heard this from many different sources. Why do you think some of the local builders can get away with delivering boats a year or two late and can still stay in business. One of the many reasons I had my boat built in Canada!!!
When I decided on Suzuki's for my boat I purchased them from a local dealer who has been in business for a long time and I shipped them to Canada. The engines were cheaper, are US engines and are fully warranted by Suzuki USA. Additionally, since I purchased them from the local dealer they now have a vested interest in servicing the engines and keeping me happy. So far this is working very well.
Jrogers - good luck on your selection, I know it is a difficult decision that does not have "One single right answer".
SB
S.L. Dave and others are correct about the importance of having a qualified, reputable, servicing dealer close by when selecting power for your boat.
Having the latest, whiz bang engine on your boat is not a good thing if you can't get it serviced. In reality there is not a huge difference in any of the newer four stroke engines so having a good dealer nearby should be high in importance when selecting the engines.
The BIG difference in our market and those in America is in spite of the vast shoreline we have we have very, very few dealers - we have almost no choice.
Example - In Anchorage we have 2 (TWO) Suzuki dealers and 2 (TWO) Yamaha dealers and one of the dealers is the same as they sell and service both Suzuki and Yamaha's. Honda - only one, Mercury - yep only one. Now if you want to drive 125 to 150 miles there are a few more.
Example: A friend of mine runs a charter service out of Nilchick and he runs Verados. Since he has no servicing dealer nearby he has gone to the Mercury Verado school and is a factory certified Verado technician AND he has purchased all of the necessary service and test equipment to do almost every service on a Verado.
The other issue up here is that since we are such a captive market dealers and builders sometimes don't seem to give a s**t about the customer - why should they, they know you have nowhere else to go. I am told that the larger of the Yamaha dealers in Anchorage sells more Yamaha's than any other dealer in the nation and he has a reputation of being hard to deal with. I know it is hard to believe but I have heard this from many different sources. Why do you think some of the local builders can get away with delivering boats a year or two late and can still stay in business. One of the many reasons I had my boat built in Canada!!!
When I decided on Suzuki's for my boat I purchased them from a local dealer who has been in business for a long time and I shipped them to Canada. The engines were cheaper, are US engines and are fully warranted by Suzuki USA. Additionally, since I purchased them from the local dealer they now have a vested interest in servicing the engines and keeping me happy. So far this is working very well.
Jrogers - good luck on your selection, I know it is a difficult decision that does not have "One single right answer".
SB
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Ironwoodtuna
- Donator '09 '10
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- Your location: NY
- Location: Montauk, NY
DIESEL
OK Boys, Sorry I missed this thread, guess I just didn't get down under on the site.
So here's my thought:
1st, For offshore tuna fishing, I don't like the outboards PERIOD, they are in the way and if a good boat builder makes the raised 18" to 24" extension for the engines to sit on to geve then good clean water then you have all that hardware, props, etc. to get a deep death circling tuna around.
My 14,000lb., fully loaded for bear 30' x 11' Ironwood with a single Volvo D6-310hp I/O duo prop is running 26-knots at around 15GPH. I got rid of the Bennet trim tabs and went to the Volvo Boat trim units which are small so I only have the outdrive to get a big tuna or swordfish around. With 310-gallons of fuel I reguarly fish 120-150NM from port for two and three days, trolling 12-hours per day an running 24-26knots to and from. On the longest trip for three days I have only burned 222-gallons. That leaves me nearly 1/3 reserve. That makes me feel SAFE.
The outdrive a very slow speed makes a little noise as it s turning but at no other time do you here of feel anything.
I see another difference in the two choices that revolve around fuel burn and range. When I come home in rough seas and can only get 14-18 knots, I will only burn an extra 10-20 gallons in a dual outboard setup I guarantee you will burn an extra 30-40 gallons for the same 60-miles. That said my 300-gallons is double the range of the dual setup.
No single 300hp outboard would do what my Volvo dose barr none, let along get the fuel economy, I get with 14,000lbs infront of it. Yes it is a single engine but many of the lobster and big offshore long liners are all single diesel engines and run 24/7 for weeks and months at a time.
Yes, I wish I had the 350 or better yet 435hp Volvo coupled to a jetdrive over the outdrive. Don't get me wrong, Volvo has made one big tuff son of a LITTLE GIRL duo prop diesel outdrive, but when you consistantly run 100+ miles in the dark going to the canyon to get there by day daybreak, lobster pots are the issue. In the Northeast the offshore lobster pots have a BIG BOUY WITH A 30' TAG LINE THAT IS ATTACHED TO A HIGH FLYER.
Its that tag line between the two that gets wrapped up in the props, so my choice now is jetdrive! Also running at 25-knots at night you can also run over things floating, los, boxes, etc. The boat is super strong and handles impacts well, the outdrive has popped up ok with no damage, but jetdrive would still be better.
With either outdrive or jetdrive, on my next boat wheter its a cat or mono, the transom deck will hang out over the drive so there is little chance of a big fish tangling and breaking off on the drive.
Up until this year my fuel was ususally a dollar cheaper than gas, and with double the range just makes best sence to me.
The volvo diesel in the outdrive is smokeless, people can't beleive that its a diesel baot, NO FUMES. The engine is also much quiter than my old V8 gas I/O in my Albemarle. In fact, my 24' Volvo 380hp, V8 could only cruise at 20-22knots burning 14-gallons per hour, going to the canyon. I only had 118-gallons and I had to bring 32-extra gallons, then go through the hassel of transfering the fuel, and I could do just the TAILS canyon (68-NM) on a day trip while trolling 20-miles towards home to maximize the fuel range, and still usually came home on fumes.
THe diesel maintnenace is 5-gallons of Rotella oil and two oil filters every 100+ hours, where as your burning gallons of 2-cycle oil on dual big outboards every tank full. Then winterizing cost on the outboards is much higher too, for me its oil change, fuel and oil filters, drain the water, DONE! then over two years shange the impella and bellows in addition to the regular winterizing. No plugs, wires, tuning, plug gaps, timing, etc.
To each their own, the greater top end speed the dual 250s would give is nice if you can afford the fuel and have the needed range, but I know that if I had the 370 or 435 on my boat, I would have 10+ better knots in speed burning the same or less because the engine is working less and turning a bigger set of wheels.
Hope this sheds some light on my real life experiences using diesel.
So here's my thought:
1st, For offshore tuna fishing, I don't like the outboards PERIOD, they are in the way and if a good boat builder makes the raised 18" to 24" extension for the engines to sit on to geve then good clean water then you have all that hardware, props, etc. to get a deep death circling tuna around.
My 14,000lb., fully loaded for bear 30' x 11' Ironwood with a single Volvo D6-310hp I/O duo prop is running 26-knots at around 15GPH. I got rid of the Bennet trim tabs and went to the Volvo Boat trim units which are small so I only have the outdrive to get a big tuna or swordfish around. With 310-gallons of fuel I reguarly fish 120-150NM from port for two and three days, trolling 12-hours per day an running 24-26knots to and from. On the longest trip for three days I have only burned 222-gallons. That leaves me nearly 1/3 reserve. That makes me feel SAFE.
The outdrive a very slow speed makes a little noise as it s turning but at no other time do you here of feel anything.
I see another difference in the two choices that revolve around fuel burn and range. When I come home in rough seas and can only get 14-18 knots, I will only burn an extra 10-20 gallons in a dual outboard setup I guarantee you will burn an extra 30-40 gallons for the same 60-miles. That said my 300-gallons is double the range of the dual setup.
No single 300hp outboard would do what my Volvo dose barr none, let along get the fuel economy, I get with 14,000lbs infront of it. Yes it is a single engine but many of the lobster and big offshore long liners are all single diesel engines and run 24/7 for weeks and months at a time.
Yes, I wish I had the 350 or better yet 435hp Volvo coupled to a jetdrive over the outdrive. Don't get me wrong, Volvo has made one big tuff son of a LITTLE GIRL duo prop diesel outdrive, but when you consistantly run 100+ miles in the dark going to the canyon to get there by day daybreak, lobster pots are the issue. In the Northeast the offshore lobster pots have a BIG BOUY WITH A 30' TAG LINE THAT IS ATTACHED TO A HIGH FLYER.
Its that tag line between the two that gets wrapped up in the props, so my choice now is jetdrive! Also running at 25-knots at night you can also run over things floating, los, boxes, etc. The boat is super strong and handles impacts well, the outdrive has popped up ok with no damage, but jetdrive would still be better.
With either outdrive or jetdrive, on my next boat wheter its a cat or mono, the transom deck will hang out over the drive so there is little chance of a big fish tangling and breaking off on the drive.
Up until this year my fuel was ususally a dollar cheaper than gas, and with double the range just makes best sence to me.
The volvo diesel in the outdrive is smokeless, people can't beleive that its a diesel baot, NO FUMES. The engine is also much quiter than my old V8 gas I/O in my Albemarle. In fact, my 24' Volvo 380hp, V8 could only cruise at 20-22knots burning 14-gallons per hour, going to the canyon. I only had 118-gallons and I had to bring 32-extra gallons, then go through the hassel of transfering the fuel, and I could do just the TAILS canyon (68-NM) on a day trip while trolling 20-miles towards home to maximize the fuel range, and still usually came home on fumes.
THe diesel maintnenace is 5-gallons of Rotella oil and two oil filters every 100+ hours, where as your burning gallons of 2-cycle oil on dual big outboards every tank full. Then winterizing cost on the outboards is much higher too, for me its oil change, fuel and oil filters, drain the water, DONE! then over two years shange the impella and bellows in addition to the regular winterizing. No plugs, wires, tuning, plug gaps, timing, etc.
To each their own, the greater top end speed the dual 250s would give is nice if you can afford the fuel and have the needed range, but I know that if I had the 370 or 435 on my boat, I would have 10+ better knots in speed burning the same or less because the engine is working less and turning a bigger set of wheels.
Hope this sheds some light on my real life experiences using diesel.
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!-
Shark Bait
- Donator 08, 11, 15, 17
- Posts: 148
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:30 pm
- 16
- Location: Eagle River Alaska
Ironwood: Good post – It clearly shows that there is no single “Right Answer”. The debates over I/O vs. Outboards, singles vs. twins, Gas vs. diesel and especially single I/O vs. twin outboards has been going for ever and will continue to go on until someone invents the “Perfect” power system for boats. There is no such thing as the”Perfect Boat”, they all are compromises to some degree or another.
I truly believe that BEFORE you select a boat or what powers it the user must be brutally honest with himself on what he intends to use the boat for. Once that is done than all of the other decisions can be made. A boat built and powered for a specific purpose may be great when used that way but then it may be a POS when used for another purpose. Again, what are you going to use it for and where are you going to use it. What works for one may not work for another.
In our neck of the woods you see very few large two stroke outboards – almost all of them are the newer four strokes which are easy to maintain, winterize and don’t use two stroke oil or they are I/Os.
I personally like the redundancy of twin engines – I/Os or outboards - for offshore use. I guess part of that comes from flying twin engine fighters for so long and having to come home on one engine on multiple occasions.
The change the subject a little, in your signature picture I see at least 11 rods in the water and I can see only one person on board. Do you have any limits on the number of poles a person can fish? Up here it is one line in the water per person – you can’t legally fish two poles at once.
SB
I truly believe that BEFORE you select a boat or what powers it the user must be brutally honest with himself on what he intends to use the boat for. Once that is done than all of the other decisions can be made. A boat built and powered for a specific purpose may be great when used that way but then it may be a POS when used for another purpose. Again, what are you going to use it for and where are you going to use it. What works for one may not work for another.
In our neck of the woods you see very few large two stroke outboards – almost all of them are the newer four strokes which are easy to maintain, winterize and don’t use two stroke oil or they are I/Os.
I personally like the redundancy of twin engines – I/Os or outboards - for offshore use. I guess part of that comes from flying twin engine fighters for so long and having to come home on one engine on multiple occasions.
The change the subject a little, in your signature picture I see at least 11 rods in the water and I can see only one person on board. Do you have any limits on the number of poles a person can fish? Up here it is one line in the water per person – you can’t legally fish two poles at once.
SB
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Ironwoodtuna
- Donator '09 '10
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:27 pm
- 16
- Your location: NY
- Location: Montauk, NY
There is only a limit on how many fish you can have on board per person with a recreational license. Yellowfins is 3 per person, albacore is unlimited as well as bigeyes and BFT changes throughout the season including closing all together at times. Even if it is just three on the boat, when I am trolling I run 11 to 13 rods always. I like getting 6, 7, 8 or more 60-90lb fish on and having at chinese fire drill for a half an hour or so. We still fish and release after our quota is filled and stop when our arms and backs are tired. In the next week or too I should be going deep for the early big boys.
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!Comments on a jet unit
Marty,
Thanks for the post on your experiences with your volvo penta. I have settled into this decision as well. The only remaining thing is if I go with one or two ( a bigger boat with twins).
As for your comments about jet drives, my current boat is a 24' Duchworth alumunum with a 460ci gas motor, and a Hamilton 211 jet. The jet has it's pluses and minuses. I have sucked a shrimp pot line from one of my pots into the jet unit, and had to limp to shore with the kicker and open the top inspection plate of to cut out the rope. I have also hit a big patch of seaweed and blocked the intack to the point that I could not get the boat on step and it was pinned in too tight for the stomp grate to clear it. Both situations could be avoided, but my experience is that the jet unit is not invincible in the salt.
This being said, I have also hit a gravel bar in a tight little salmon rivier doing 42 mph where I drug it back to the deep water, fired it up, and went about my business, only loosing a couple of miles per hour in top speed until I got the impeller reconditioned. I also once missed seeing a commercial set net, and skipped right over top of it with no damage to the net or my boat. With an out drive this would not have been the case.
I just thought I would pass along my experiences in this area, and thanks again for your post.
Jim
Thanks for the post on your experiences with your volvo penta. I have settled into this decision as well. The only remaining thing is if I go with one or two ( a bigger boat with twins).
As for your comments about jet drives, my current boat is a 24' Duchworth alumunum with a 460ci gas motor, and a Hamilton 211 jet. The jet has it's pluses and minuses. I have sucked a shrimp pot line from one of my pots into the jet unit, and had to limp to shore with the kicker and open the top inspection plate of to cut out the rope. I have also hit a big patch of seaweed and blocked the intack to the point that I could not get the boat on step and it was pinned in too tight for the stomp grate to clear it. Both situations could be avoided, but my experience is that the jet unit is not invincible in the salt.
This being said, I have also hit a gravel bar in a tight little salmon rivier doing 42 mph where I drug it back to the deep water, fired it up, and went about my business, only loosing a couple of miles per hour in top speed until I got the impeller reconditioned. I also once missed seeing a commercial set net, and skipped right over top of it with no damage to the net or my boat. With an out drive this would not have been the case.
I just thought I would pass along my experiences in this area, and thanks again for your post.
Jim
Jim
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Ironwoodtuna
- Donator '09 '10
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:27 pm
- 16
- Your location: NY
- Location: Montauk, NY
THanks Jim for your imput. I think the loose tag end line or just floating poly rope is curtains for any propulsion system, I/O, jet, Inboard or outboard.
I need range so diesel is still the best for me, and if I could get a 435hp volvo in my rig to the I/O I would love it. Marty
I need range so diesel is still the best for me, and if I could get a 435hp volvo in my rig to the I/O I would love it. Marty
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!-
Ironwoodtuna
- Donator '09 '10
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:27 pm
- 16
- Your location: NY
- Location: Montauk, NY
Don't know yet, if a single injector was N/G or clogged it would have started and ran ruff. I think I F'ed the Injector Pump and that's why it won't start. There really isn't anything else to go wrong. The mechanic should be ou tues or wed. Really sucked to not be able to get the VETS some nice fish for their trip to THE END>Montauk.
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!