Butterflying?? Anyone??

[JETTYWOLF]

Is this shop talk??? It is for me. Maybe I need to move this to Fishing My Alloy Boat, or Dock Talk...?



So who's been Butterfly jig fishing?


It looks to be hands down made for ya'll Cod fishers.

I don't go offshore much any more, got bored with it...bottom fishing and trolling. And of course ya need a 40 foot boat to be able to do it year round even here in N.E. Florida.

But I'm excited to try jigging with a freestyle jig. Never jigged before offshore. So now I have something new to do. I got me some blade type jigs (shimano's are a tad expensive, plus you have to add hooks and riongs and all....) so I got me some cheaper models and a M.H. Trevalla Shimano jigging rod and matched it up to one of my small Accurate B-197 twin drag reels. It's small but powerful as all hell, and has a narrow spool, so ya don't have to lay line, really.


-just was wondering if any one has tried it with good success. I'm just gonna mess around with the system for King Mackerel, Seabass, and maybe a Red Snapper or Grouper close inshore if I get lucky, and use it when I go way offshore in my neighbors 31' Jupiter with twin 300's, where all I have to do is show up, and fish. Nice deal there, huh?
He's a serious MEAT fisherman.

If ya fish and aren't locked in a closet, butterfly jigging is all the rage.
I've been watching video's from Shimano on Jose Wejebe's web site, THE SPANISH FLY...A TV show of immense popularity in Florida.
http://www.spanishflytv.com/theater/spo ... jigs-1.php

The video's are tough to watch and learn, because I have no sound on my computer. Something happened to the sound card(??)

[AlloyToy]

Guys get tuna up this way with jigs like that 40 feet or so down.

Adrian (capeannfisherman)grabbed a BFT last year jigging. They also get tuna while cod jigging to the East of the Bank

[JETTYWOLF]

They doing butterfly style jigging or using just a standard hooked Diamond jig?

Send them down to 250 feet do a lil jig and hang on!

I read this on one NE web site;
]"Captains Andy and Rich head up to Point Judith to get in on a red hot school tuna bite with Captain Mike Neto of the Adrianna Charters (401-573-3474). Bluefin Tuna fishing just keeps getting better every year. The bite was non-stop and they caught way too many bluefin tuna to count. Some of the fish were nearly 35lbs! They put the trolling gear away and had all the fish on the new Shimano butterfly jig system and Yo-Zuri topwater plugs on very light spinning tackle. If you have questions about any of the equipment used during the show,"

[welder]

Yes we Jig , around the Rigs and over structure and ya better be sure you have heavy line and a good drag cuz when the big boys hiy it , it;s like snaging the bottom.

[JETTYWOLF]

I know none of what Shimano is hocking is new.....but I do love the light tackle rods they have made, for the system.

Jigging is jigging, but they do have some nice terminal tackle that helps out, in partnership with Owner, I guess.

Out in California the guy from Charkbait tackle, really "poo-poo's" Shimano because he's obviously in bed with Avet reels.
He made a big deal about the whole deal when some one asked about
Shimano butterfly jigs and such on his message board.

It's not a crack pill to every fish that swims...but sure looks fun.

What I do like is the variety of fish that can be taken, while just drifting.
Any time I can turn off the outboard and save fuel, I do it.

I think I may get a "Boat Brake" from Para-tech engineering
http://www.seaanchor.com/boatbrakes.htm
Makes sence to go slower when jiggin' a reef area.

We have lots opf current usually, plenty of wind too. I could use one anyhow for beach live baiting and Tarpon/shark fishing too.

I've seen pix of MONSTER Halibut caught on "free-style" vertical jigs....anyone??

[AlloyToy]

They jig the butterflies for BFT. We jig 17.5-21 ouncers for COD/Haddock any where from 90 to 125 feet on the bank.

In case anyone is wondering "The Bank" is Stellwagon............

http://stellwagen.noaa.gov/


COD April 1st!!!!

[JETTYWOLF]

Alloy,

That's alot of heavy metal....the use of slimmer jigs that don't have to weight that much, thin braid, and swinging hooks are jigged in 250-300 feet in the Bahama's and south Florida.

Why so heavy? Ya'll must be working up a sweat!

Have you seen the butterfly jigging videos?

And in the cold water technique, the www.Lucanusjig.com site.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HNqQKMxU0D0

[AlloyToy]

Yeah they beat you up. On days when the tide is running less we can get away with 9 oz.

We drift fish for them, and they (cod) tend to stack up. When the tide is running, and you mark fish we want to be able to drop and hit the school before we drift off them. In the spring they chase bait too so the schools if feeding move constantly.

Some anchor and fish bait. The butterfly jigs are very similar to the crippled herring jigs we fish. We also fish "Pipe Jigs" just what it says, old pieces of Alum/SS pipe crimped off on the ends, filled with lead, and a big azzzz treble on the ends. They drop straight down nicely.

If the jig is to light your line "scopes out", and you are constantly reeling in and re-setting your jig. A heavy jig hangs vertical.........

All this bottom fishing talk has got me thinking how quickly we are "ramping up" for a NE fishing season :D

Codfisher will be on them on 4/1/08 I bet!!

[Bullshipper]

[quote="JETTYWOLF"]
Out in California the guy from Charkbait tackle, really "poo-poo's" Shimano because he's obviously in bed with Avet reels.
He made a big deal about the whole deal when some one asked about
Shimano butterfly jigs and such on his message board.

[/quote]

Shimano recently forbade their dealers from discounting their tackle. Dropping their line cost him money and created a hole in his line up.

Chark had worked hard over the years to build up a client following and when Shimano changed the rules of the game, he felt that raising prices would screw his customers and take away the distinction he had as one of the lowest priced dealers for all brands.

Avet is a west coast reel, with west coast factory direct service, and chark is one of the best discount tackle shops on the west coast.

He, unlike many drop shippers, actually knows of what he speaks, and a lot about selecting and setting up good tackle for extended long range trips.

He currently carries Accurate, abu garcia, John Baker, avet, Diawa, Newell, Penn, and others, so I would like to see what evidence you have that proves he is in bed with Avet as you claim.

[JETTYWOLF]

I hope in May to take our coastal tuna, the blackfin on one of my jigs.
Haven't caught one in years.....I guess because I don't fish offshore any more.

But that will change. I'm real excited about trying my hand at jiggin', and don't really care what I catch.

A cuda, a king mackerel. It'll all be good, just for the fun of it.

I hit our local pro-shop side walk sale the other day and loaded up on jigs, and Owner and Gamakatsu assist hooks, at pennies on the dollar, especially that tie-able wire called Tiger-braid. $3.00 instead of $12.00 to $16.00 for 10' of 50-75 pound.....so I bought it all. Must have 200 feet!!!

What deals I got.

Now all I have to do is find a deal on petro.[/list]

[JETTYWOLF]

Bull......I read all that, too.

I know Shimano's deal, Shimano is out there moving and shaking. He's right though. Jigging ain't nothing new. But then again Tiger ain't golfing with wood clubs either!!

I didn't do shimano jigs. I bought massively discounted Braid jigs, and bought hundreds of dollars of jigs, hooks and leader material for pennies on the dollar the other day.....been in the planning stages for an all out assualt on this place for weeks.

I retail for hardly anything, can't afford too. I have to sit and wait out a massive sale.

I meant what you read....it sounded like "poo-pooing" Shimano. And it's his right. He's seems to be an Avet man.

This area isn't as "Avet country".

[welder]

Posts: 21 | Registered: 31 October 2006

Chark
CharkBait Staff
Captain

Posted 14 November 2006 04:24 PM Hide Post
The lures are pretty generic, and what shimano offers is way overpriced. Of course I'm quite biased against this manufacturer. But, the reality is that this is a style of fishing that's been around for years. We sell the ProFish Co. jigs as well as River2Sea's products which offer the consumer a much better values since they are the manufacturers themselves (instead of two-stepping).

The main benefit, and it's much more of a benefit fishing deep water, is that they drop quickly. So, for fishing say 200' they offer some advantages. But, for waters of 100' or so, our more traditional iron like Tady or Sumo offers will produce better action (my opinion). On our last 10 day trip for example, the more traditional iron was more productive, much more. For tossing to wahoo the Catchy Seastrike 33's were the jig of choice, though some rigged up knife jigs with single or treble hooks on the rear for this application.

Bottom line, in my opinion the "system" is anything but revolutionary. It's been a "hot" selling category that's being well hyped by shimano (could be because they don't have anything else to boast these days in terms of reels). In reality, it's just another tool for an angler to employ in certain fishing conditions. In the right, specific, application, it's definetly the way to go and it will prove productive. But, it's not the end-all, it's just one more tool and one more technique. One thing for sure, the "matching" rods are nothing but hype. Shitmano's trying to ram these down dealers throats, forcing them to buy rods AND jigs in a predetermined mix that includes reels they have a very hard time giving away (torsettes, er, torsas). They're offering a second class rod, with wimpy action, that's not up to the better quality rods produced here in America (Seeker and Calstar). Shimano sells hype, or was that tripe...

Great Stuff!
Mark
Posts: 270 | Registered: 18 September 2006

Ignored post by Chark posted 14 November 2006 04:24 PM Show Post

SoCalAngler
Captain
Posted 14 November 2006 05:49 PM

He does bash Shimano perty good and I don't care who he is in bed with as long as we can fish out of a ALLOY BOAT.

One of our rules is no bashing and I post Mr Charkbaits post so we know how he feels about Shimano products , nuff said.

Bull , how was your Easter ?

[JETTYWOLF]

The only part of my "SYSTEM" that's actually Shimano is my $99.00 rod that I had a $15 off store coupon, I used.

The rest is all "side walk sale jigs and stuff", that was s steal.....and a few Bass Pro Shops Free-style jigs that come with hooks, split rings and solid rings and look really good for 1/2 of what Shimano jigs cost with no rigging! I'm very impressed with the BPS jigs!!

I like shimano....but I agree the jigs are out of my $$ range. Which is everyones gripe.

Could care less if Shimano doesn't let retailers discount anything, either does G. Loomis. Don't Republican's call it Free Trade....?

[Guest]

Jettywolf,

I used the butterfly jigs some last fall, but not really hard core. I had a charter and couldn't spend a lot of time working the jig as they were having fun with bait for seabass and we were constantly repositioning for the drift.

I caught seabass and kings (and several foul-hooked trash fish) on the jigs. The kings were a problem because they cut-off the jigs (and they are expensive, even if you get a deal). First I caught a king, then had a jig cut-off florocarbon leader, then two more cut off wireleader above the swivel (I'm guessing all kings, but don't know for sure). I was using black swivels and don't know why the problem.

Interesting article in SaltWaterSportsman magazine recently. George Poveromo wrote an article about substituting circle hooks rather than the j-hooks. He swears the hookup ratio is better and you don't foul hook fish. George is a personal friend from the 80's and he had told me about this before he wrote the article. I questioned him pretty hard about it, but he is adamant that the circle hooks work better, so I am going to give it a try.

Tom

[cptom]

Jetty,

The above post is mine. I forgot to log-in

cptom

[JETTYWOLF]

I'm gladz to see ya here Tom. I get lonesome.

George P. , likes the circles huh

Well I'm already gonna try doing things a bit different and I haven't yet wetted a jig :shock:.
Since I made out like a bandit at Strike Zones side walk sale, I'm using jigs that #1 I paid 2 bucks for...which in turn means I don't care if I loose them, and #2 no swivels, just knots and cleaned out the side walk sale of that Tiger wire Leader material, from 30-90# test. Completely tie-able leader. Shimano reccomended that wire leader on one of the web sites I was reading.

But am so glad to hear you caught some slimey's on them because that's what I wanna do too...Like I said I'd be happy with a seabass, a cuda, spanish or a king. A snapper or grouper in my mind is just a bonus fish, because I'm not heading out all that far....maybe 10-12 miles, max.

I fish offshore like NEVER anymore! But, new things excite me and rejuvenate my spirit, when it's 100 degrees and no wind under the Dames Point Bridge while Trout fishing and the Mangos are eating all 10 dozen of my shrimp!!!!

.....I doubt many of these trips will be with customers, and if so "very hand selected". And at possibly $4.00 a gallon of fuel by this summer I ain't loading the boat with 4-400 pound Chicago Cops and heading to BlackMars Reef by NO means!

Are ya doing any wheel chair trips? I saw your site thought you may have really stressed that. If someone contacts me, I'll do it easily for them, because I too have lots of room.

Most of the "assist hooks" I have are wire. Figured that we have just too many cuda's and kings around. Unlike Sailfish in Ft. Pierce in December and January where all ya need is a 5/0 circle hook and some 60-80# mono leader and a big sardine, to catch fish all day and no cut-offs.

I have literally thousands of circle hooks

[cptom]

Dave,

I normally don't shop at the place you got the sale deals because their normal prices don't seem to be discounted. I saw the sale ad in the paper but didn't go.

I didn't have any cut-offs of the hook, just the leader or the line above the swivel. I should have eliminated the swivel, but I just switched to a diamond jig and picked up seabass on that.

George has been pushing circle hooks for a long time but I am still a little skeptical about them on the large butterfly jigs until I try it.

Let me know when the trout pick up. I want to charter you to learn your float fishing techniques.

[JETTYWOLF]

The trout are picked up...just the last two weeks have been too windy to float-fish, thats all.
NOW, thru May is #1, and the best is at the Mayport rocks.
Tide heigth is so important, and wind direction.

I'm gonna go look to go jigging wednesday at M.R. (my first time out trying it) if not, the fall back will be T-rout at the rocks...throw in a high tide R.B. (Brutus T. Red Bass)

Here's a high water, NO spotter!

[cptom]

Jettywolf,

You had a great day to go offshore. I drove along the beach and thought about you jigging up some snapper as I went to get allergy shots.
Let us know how you did out in the deep water.

cptom

[Capt. G]

They jig the butterflies for BFT. We jig 17.5-21 ouncers for COD/Haddock any where from 90 to 125 feet on the bank.

In case anyone is wondering "The Bank" is Stellwagon............

http://stellwagen.noaa.gov/


COD April 1st!!!!

When it comes to cod fishing, I probably own a least one of any jig ever made to ground fish with. Every year I swear not to buy anything except my old standby 21 oz SS norweigan style jig. Last year a fellow charter captain told me to give the butterfly flat sided jigs a try. So I went out bought at Trevala TC4, put a Torium 30 loaded with 65lb JB braid and a bunch of butterfly jigs. TO MY SURPRISE the large flat sided pink/silver butterflys were deadly on cod and haddock (caught cats, cusk and pollack as well). We usually jig in 250-350 ft but I used them on a couple 450+ drops and they worked great. You have to get use to the yo yo technique but once yo do they were just plain fun to jig with. I always let a couple customers give it a try when they need a break from the hard core jigging we do on the boat.

I will never give up my SS jigs and meat sticks but the butterflys always come along for the ride to give us a change of pace.

Update....I am not impressed with the new Lucanus jigs for cod fishing (no way are they going to stand up to the fish we target) and will not be buying them but I can see where they might work great on fluke, sea bass, or trout.

[JETTYWOLF]

I knew there had to be a smart man up yonder trying it.
For me it's not about the "meat" but rather the challenge, doing the butterfly jigging.....

The Lucanus is more locale and species orientated. Here we can use it for winter Seabass and Snapper probably, but I'd hate to see what a 20 pound Gag, black or Warsaw Grouper would do to you on a Lucanus jig.
Hand ya your azz on a silver platter. Probably.

Winter seabassin' is big time fun on light tackle, I used to do alot of it, back when there was zero limits. We'd fill my 186 qt. SSI cooler and when it was full. It was time to head for the dock.

Now it's 10 fish at 12" and over.......the biggest I ever caught was 4 pounds. So they don't get huge, here in the south. But the meat sure is good.

If they can deep jig with butterflies in the keys, ya'll can certainly do it there in New England. Tuna Catches are what everyone wants in the keys to the bahamas.
'

[longranger]

I have fished shallow and deep along the California and Baha coast with every jig I have ever heard good things about. IMHO the knife jigs have a definate place and that is fishing 150 ft or deeper with the newer all metal reels we all know and love. It allows you to use a smaller but powerfull reel with spectra teamed with a moderate action rod with backbone. These jigs fall faster and stay on or close to bottom better than conventional jigs of the same weight.

They have also been productive for me catching all species of tuna when they are laying down 50 or more feet. Conventional jigs work here too but not as well if you are in any kind of current or wind causing the lure to rapidly scope out.

The conventional iron has worked better for me whenever I fish for species that hit highspeed retrieves or the surface. I can only assume that is because of a better action. Anyway that has been my experience.

PS the lower priced clones of shimano work every bit as well as the more expensive "originals".

Mike B

[JETTYWOLF]

Thanks for the input Mike.

I'm seriously gonna be jigging all I can, here in my neck of the woods.
I want to go out and hit the reefs here with NO bait, and just do as they say in the video links I posted earlier, "Hit spots fast and hard, watching the scope and paying close attention to what fish are in the water column".

I know here and there are too different worlds. I won't be jigging for Tuna, but rather King Mackerel, Spanish Mackerel, Bonita (little Tunny) and Cuda's.

I don't have any Shimano jigs, but did get a few Bass Pro Shop brand Free-style jigs in 5 oz. and man they look good for the price, which included 2-5/0 assist hooks, too for $9.00

Can't beat that!

[Capt. G]

Capt Dave the Shimano flat sided jigs were designed for drift fishing (which is what I do primarily) and I have to admit they work really well. I will probably try some knock offs this year on the groundfish to see how they compare but if the tuna are around I know I will be throwin the Shimano flat sides.

I am sure the lucanus jigs have a niche and would be fun to use targeting the correct species but I cant see using them for the large groundfish we are seeking here in the NE. Besides, I really dont feel laying out $400-500 for the special rod/reel they suggest you buy in order to fish them properly.

Tight Lines,

[AlloyToy]

Capt. George,
What do those Trevala jigs weigh? We fished Crippled Herrings years back and they worked quite well...........