Pilothouse

Mods and custom builds
Chaps
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Re: Pilothouse

#51

Post by Chaps »

Its good to hear you didn't pack on too many pounds.
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
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goatram
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Re: Pilothouse

#52

Post by goatram »

Well I will NOT be Cutting off the Top.

The aft bilge pump does not work. I found it out after Troy aka fishnazzi pumped in water to the fish box and got it 3/4 filled. Had to use the new forward one to pump it out. i also had to stand on the fwd side of the bow to assist it a little.

Took the boat out to Lake Goodwin about 2 miles away. Troy was already there fishing (his report), saw my boat in the water and came over towards me. Met up with him in the Center of the lake. The boat lost 4 mph from prior to the Pilothouse (PH) Top speed before on my GPS was 43. Now it is 39 mph. Fresh water testing done. Boat was stable with the porpoising problems of the past still present

Took the boat to Everett. Flasher aka Ken P. was already out on the water fishing. We talked by phone and then by radio. we launched and sat outside in the river channel while we flooded the fish box. The boat got real stable with about 60 gallons or so of water in the box. Troy likes to move around in the back of the boat. under way it is a pain in the BACK SIDE to keep re-trimming the tabs when he is pacing. When we were almost done filling we started the run down river to meet up with flasher.Got up on plane with the box full but she was slow. Stopped out front of the mouth of the river. pulled the plug and Troy started to worry about the time Ken pulled up. Fiddle fubared around with the pump could not get it to work so turned on the fwd pump. Talked with Ken and picked on the Scared Troy. Thought he would have to swim, he did. Drained the fish box and Ken did take some more pictures. I was driving the boat. Ken was the man with the camera. He has the pictures along with Troy. When I get them I will post them/

I need to fix the aft bilge pump and drop my engine down one hole on the mount.

Next thing to the boat will be a bigger/wider hull extension to combat porpoising.
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mojomizer
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Re: Pilothouse

#53

Post by mojomizer »

Goatram do you mainly fish Fresh or Salt Water. On my 19' Baja Bayrunner is a bit doggy in the Fresh Water compared to Salt Water. Glad to hear your weight numbers came out ok.

Looking forward to seeing Your pics and future extension project. How will the extension fix your porpoising problem? Do you have trim tabs?

Mark
2325 Wa Pacificskiff
Mark
2325 WA PACIFICSKIFF
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goatram
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Re: Pilothouse

#54

Post by goatram »

mojomizer wrote:Goatram do you mainly fish Fresh or Salt Water. On my 19' Baja Bayrunner is a bit doggy in the Fresh Water compared to Salt Water. Glad to hear your weight numbers came out ok.

Looking forward to seeing Your pics and future extension project. How will the extension fix your porpoising problem? Do you have trim tabs?

Mark
2325 Wa Pacificskiff
Mark I fish the salt in the sound and off the coast. The hull extension currently on the boat is 20" long X 23" wide and I added 7" of that already last year. At the boat show the new boats all had longer and wider hull extensions. If you look at the pictures you will see the different air gaps on the hull at speed and it was a very calm day. Speed was just touching 39 mph and I was using the engine and trim taps to get the bow down and stop the porpoising. The way I am thinking a planing hull works; it rides on top of the water the engine is providing the thrust and the hull is being supported by the water. if the amount of the boats foot print gets to small for the contact of the water the stern falls and the bow raises up and it is a vicious cycle.

Mike aka Gundog's boat should have a much larger hull extension as built by the factory. My boat first had no hull extension then in 2005 when the stern cracked out they rewelded it on plus added a 18"l X 23"w Ext. supported by two ribs to the offshore bracket. 2006 NR changed the design of the Hull from the old style to the current design. it adds both Floatation and lift at speed.

Lake Goodwin
Lake Goodwin
Troy 134.jpg (61.02 KiB) Viewed 18517 times
Lake Goodwin
Lake Goodwin
Troy 136.jpg (56.58 KiB) Viewed 18517 times
Lake Goodwin
Lake Goodwin
Troy 143.jpg (38.59 KiB) Viewed 18517 times
sound
sound
test1.jpg (96.07 KiB) Viewed 18517 times
added by NR 2005
added by NR 2005
NR EXTENSION.jpg (44.49 KiB) Viewed 18517 times
What I added to extend and add some floatation and to stop the ectension from taking on water
What I added to extend and add some floatation and to stop the ectension from taking on water
transom pics 001.jpg (61.24 KiB) Viewed 18517 times
Left hole drains the bilge Center the upper chamber and the right side the lower chamber
Left hole drains the bilge Center the upper chamber and the right side the lower chamber
transom pics 002.jpg (54.06 KiB) Viewed 18517 times
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Gundog
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Re: Pilothouse

#55

Post by Gundog »

Looking good John.

Have you ran it since adding the extension on the offshore bracket?

My old NR for the record did not have the floatation when I first got it and it porpoised terribly. I had the factory add the floatation by reworking the offshore bracket. 2006 is when they finally fixed the bad design.

Mike
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Re: Pilothouse

#56

Post by goatram »

Gundog wrote:Looking good John.

Have you ran it since adding the extension on the offshore bracket?

My old NR for the record did not have the floatation when I first got it and it porpoised terribly. I had the factory add the floatation by reworking the offshore bracket. 2006 is when they finally fixed the bad design.

Mike
Yes Mike I added the small extension and boxed it for flotation in 2008 and have run it a bunch since. I also added the Bennett trim tabs back in the summer of 08. I never really got rid of the bounce and I have been thinking of the full width extension for a couple of months. The aluminum boat builders as to what I saw at the Seattle Boat show have all seemed to have gone to that this year. It should be quick and easy to get all of the pieces made and on a weekend remove what needed to be removed and weld it on. Right now I want to fish it till May then get the bottom paint removed by Chaps after the second weekend out in Neah Bay with the Halibut and Ling Cod. Will stop by on the 23rd of May at his place to Drop off the Boat and run back over to pick it up when it is done next day or whenever it is ready
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Re: Pilothouse

#57

Post by goatram »

I had the time before the 12th of May to put a hull extension on my boat. Bruce at CWB came throu with 3' X 9' X .250" 5086 plate I needed. I got it last week, Drew up the plans and had Can Am Metal works across the street trim it to size and bend it in two places 18 degrees to match my hull. I had to remove my motors and cut away the old crap and clean the metal. That was dirty work. The respirator/dusk mask was black along with my arms,face, and hair. (I am white haired). The plate is welded un and am now enclosing it. the Pictures
Almost ready for welding but still more cleaning to be done
Almost ready for welding but still more cleaning to be done
Transom Extentio_15.jpg (318.1 KiB) Viewed 18413 times
this Native Blackmouth wanted to sneak in. so I will leave it as some porn. It was released do to the extra fin.
this Native Blackmouth wanted to sneak in. so I will leave it as some porn. It was released do to the extra fin.
FishinBlackmouth_16.jpg (139.56 KiB) Viewed 18413 times
the bottom plate trimmed and ready to be installed
the bottom plate trimmed and ready to be installed
Transom Extentio_19.jpg (360.34 KiB) Viewed 18413 times
Starboard side
Starboard side
Transom Extentio_20.jpg (318.02 KiB) Viewed 18413 times
SB support bracket
SB support bracket
Transom Extentio_21.jpg (341.56 KiB) Viewed 18413 times
port side view
port side view
Transom Extentio_22.jpg (369.61 KiB) Viewed 18413 times
port side
port side
Transom Extentio_23.jpg (346.26 KiB) Viewed 18413 times
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JETTYWOLF
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Re: Pilothouse

#58

Post by JETTYWOLF »

Interesting stuff.....factory mods.

Looks like some big time work. Great pics!
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Re: Pilothouse

#59

Post by pjay9 »

In a thread from down under there were some holes in a transom that were actually tubes running along the keel of the boat that filled with water at rest and provided stability to the deep v hull. I have been thinking about that and how I could do a similar set to my boat. It would require a whole lot of mods and skill I don't have.

I have been thinking about trapping water at my transom bracket which on my Raider is an extension of the hull, which now you have done to your boat plus you added a side plate from the edge of the swim step to the new bottom plate and then you have a brace plate inboard as shown in pics 4 and 5. This has created a chamber to trap water at rest, but since it also an open hole from the bottom of the swimstep to that new bottom it will just slosh around in the cavity providing some damping.

If you installed a horizontal plate using the resting waterline as the top then you would create a trap chamber which in theory would then be a mass of water that would have to be lifted, thus creating more damping as it would not slosh about freely. the plate doesn't need to be water tight so installing would be somewhat simple for welding. Maybe?!

It would be worth the effort as any resting mass will help to dampen rock and roll. A cubic foot of saltwater is 64# and it appears you may have at least 2 cf so that would be a help and then with it being on the outside and not along the keel the pressure applied due to the pivot point of the keel you gain advantage, it is like holding a 5 pound item close to your body and at arm length it takes more effort when out stretched.

Hope this makes sense! Capt PJ
2009 Raider 185 Pro Fisherman, 2005 90Yamaha, 2012 Yamaha9.9HT, 2008 EzLoader roller, 2004 Dodge TCD dually, 2005/2015 Lance1161
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Re: Pilothouse

#60

Post by goatram »

Capt
That area will be enclosed and provide added bouncy as well as stability. For big guys no the dance floor makes the stern squat. Two weeks is Neah Bay Halibut and Ling Cod. If I need to I can flood my fishbox to add ballast. Two hundred pounds of fish would be a nice load of ballast also.

Two big pipes down the C/L of the boat that are tied together in the front, open in the back with a front vent line above the gunnels would make draining when running easy. Another Idea
Attachments
This is the salt accumalation after 30 months or so. minor corrosion on the 6061 pipe used for the drains
This is the salt accumalation after 30 months or so. minor corrosion on the 6061 pipe used for the drains
Transom Extentio_10.jpg (37.65 KiB) Viewed 18368 times
John Risser aka goatram
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Re: Pilothouse

#61

Post by pjay9 »

With all the new bottom you will be adding a good number of cubic feet and that will be great for your buoyancy. It will be interesting to see where your new WL is.

Today I figured out the ft#'s of resistance to tipping I would gain if I added two 6" tube by 24" on each side of my bracket. They would be 3 feet off of CL so that would require 150FT# to overcome...which should be a benefit in controlling stability. Plus if I added a down angled fin on the outside of the tube it would also provide resistance to roll. All of this would not be impact moving/planing performance as it would be above the bottom plate.

With your increased surface area across the transom which increased your hull length you should in theory gain some speed...measurable, maybe not with out use of super instruments and before and after data collection under the same conditions. What I do understand is that you are making some good improvements to the bottom all which will be beneficial. I can hardly wait to hear what you think and feel about all the work.

Looking good for sure! Capt PJ
2009 Raider 185 Pro Fisherman, 2005 90Yamaha, 2012 Yamaha9.9HT, 2008 EzLoader roller, 2004 Dodge TCD dually, 2005/2015 Lance1161
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Re: Pilothouse

#62

Post by Treb5 »

This is my very first post as a new member. I am absolutely blown away by the quality of the work on this pilot house project.. I only wish I had the webbles to attempt a job of this magnitude. Congratulations on your final project and thanks for the excellent postings as the job was done.

I am retired and have taught myself a little welding in the past several years. I have a Syncrowave 200 and a Millermatic 210 with 3035 spoolgun. I am still learning and hope you will share your expertise with me.

Can I ask a few questions?

1. Welder type and size? I see mig and tig.
2. On the mig did you use spoolgun or push pull?
3. Are you a welder by trade?
4. How did you do the cutting of the windows frames in the alum?

You must have a master collection of tools, bender, shear, box break and much more. Great job, thanks again for sharing..
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goatram
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Re: Pilothouse

#63

Post by goatram »

Treb5 wrote:This is my very first post as a new member. I am absolutely blown away by the quality of the work on this pilot house project.. I only wish I had the webbles to attempt a job of this magnitude. Congratulations on your final project and thanks for the excellent postings as the job was done.

I am retired and have taught myself a little welding in the past several years. I have a Syncrowave 200 and a Millermatic 210 with 3035 spoolgun. I am still learning and hope you will share your expertise with me.

Can I ask a few questions?

1. Welder type and size? I see mig and tig. I have a older miller 250 and a new Sync 200
2. On the mig did you use spoolgun or push pull? Spoolgun now; in a couple of years I will buy the miller 350 push/pull when I buy a set of plans and build my own. Kinda like the CWB but in a 26 or 28 foot model. I all ready started the Dreaming and talking to Bruce at CWB about the project.
3. Are you a welder by trade?Aircraft Mechanic/inspector. weld and fabricate on the side
4. How did you do the cutting of the windows frames in the alum? A 1967 model Sears Craftsman Circular Saw
You must have a master collection of tools, bender, shear, box break and much more. Great job, thanks again for sharing..


No I just have a few. I adapt, Scrounge, and make do with what I have or can bum. Thanks for comments and welcome. I have learned a lot of things in the past 5 or 6 years from all of these site that I belong to. I only post on a few (around 6 or 7 but visit around thirty for Ideas and techniques) I am a good Steel welder. Alloy I get by with in a pinch. My Son has took over the welding on the boat. My Goobers are not good enough on his future pride and Joy. I make the stuff and he sticks it where I tell him to. I first have to convince him that I am doing the right thing. Seeing you all's comments here and on Bloodydecks where I am posting the build on has helped him to like the project and does not argue as much now. He is 23 and knows it all. :soap:

The extension is enclosed need to trim off the extra and work on the anode and transducer mounts for weld tomorrow night. Saturday night I will hang both motors on the back and figure out the trim tab mount issue. Kicker bracket is in the way. Sunday's problem.
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Re: Pilothouse

#64

Post by pjay9 »

John, Hope you post pics of the enclosed stern soon...you are keeping me on pins and needles. He may know it all, but looks like pretty good welding, but I am not expert. When do you think you'll drop her in for a test run? Don't forget to make a place for the side-scan transducer as well. Looking forward to your next post! Capt PJ
2009 Raider 185 Pro Fisherman, 2005 90Yamaha, 2012 Yamaha9.9HT, 2008 EzLoader roller, 2004 Dodge TCD dually, 2005/2015 Lance1161
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goatram
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Re: Pilothouse

#65

Post by goatram »

The engines are back on and I have run out of time for the day and weekend.

I installed a through hull fitting and another 1100 GPH bilge pump in the extension.I still need to finish wiring it along with the three lights on the stern. I cleaned up and finished welding the bits and pieces to the stern Saturday night after I got off work. (8 hours distracted from finishing) Sunday I spent installing the trim tabs. I had to cut another hole for access to hook up the tabs. So one is on either side of the main. I sanded down the diamond plate to fit a hatch that will be sealed and screwed down. I broke two 10-24 taps. Instead of nuts I have tapped out the pilot hole for the tabs and structure for the access holes on the swim step.

The two engines are hung and still need to finish up the Battery cables . I spent two hours looking for the mount bolts and nuts that I finally found in a plastic bag in the big motor surround. Got the shop swept up though.

The small round lights on the stern are LED Bait Livewell Lights, I will see how they work.

I am trying to get it completed an tested for Saturday coming.
Attachments
Bilge pump and switch in the extension mounted on a removable plate
Bilge pump and switch in the extension mounted on a removable plate
Transom Extentio_26.jpg (272.3 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
Bilge pump and switch in the extension mounted on a removable plate
Bilge pump and switch in the extension mounted on a removable plate
Transom Extentio_27.jpg (364.79 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
Transom Extentio_28.jpg
Transom Extentio_28.jpg (133.51 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
Transom Extentio_29.jpg
Transom Extentio_29.jpg (358.77 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
Transom Extentio_30.jpg
Transom Extentio_30.jpg (317.74 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
Transom Extentio_31.jpg
Transom Extentio_31.jpg (285.97 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
Transom Extentio_32.jpg
Transom Extentio_32.jpg (349.5 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
Transom Extentio_33.jpg
Transom Extentio_33.jpg (369.94 KiB) Viewed 18680 times
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Re: Pilothouse

#66

Post by goatram »

A gentleman on Bloodydecks WA chapt. did the floatation calculation and came ob with 890 lbs of added floatation if submerged. I do know that the stern is now about an inch and a half higher in the water
I had the boat out today for a test run. Launched at 8:10. Tried to pull away from the dock and I ran into it WTF, looked back at the motor and it is turning the opposite direction. Put it in reverse and the gears are grinding. Dang! Put in fwd and turn the wheel opposite way and do a circle and back to the dock and load up the boat to head home at 8:30. Pulled into the driveway, switch the hyd. lines and re-bleed the steering and then pulled the cowling to find I did not properly tie back the cables. Found the cables jamming the gear linkage. fixed and headed back to Everett to launch at 10:15. pots where submerged at 11:15, pulled and stowed by 12:30, boat on the trailer at 12:50 and I was at the truck stop 8 miles from my house waiting for my ride to work. My son drove the truck and boat home to clean it and eat the 49 shrimp that we got. one pot had 47 and the other was a pathetic two.

The boat ran smooth. and stable. I still need to twique the tabs a little (raise the leading edge a little to stop some spray issues) and drop the transducer to maintain the bottom at speed. Engine is mounted at the lowest hole and it still is about 1.5 to 2" to high.

Option one is a manuel jack plate) Anyone have an extra one laying around? looks like this one or similar Second picture is the one from Cabelas.

Option two is remove the engine, cut 2" from the top side of the stern engine mount structure. Re weldthe top plate then drill new mount holes then weld in .5" dia. pipe for channels for the bolts so they are stronger.

Your thoughts on my options. Picture 32 above showes the top side of my engine mount.
Attachments
Bob's
Bob's
mj5-1944.jpg (7.16 KiB) Viewed 18658 times
Cabelas
Cabelas
s7_013586_imageset_01.jpg (19.26 KiB) Viewed 18658 times
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Re: Pilothouse

#67

Post by Gundog »

Those manual jackplates look fairly simple in design why not just make one? A hydraulic adjustable jackplate would be cool but expensive.

I have a large vertical milling machine you could use for a day just buy the material and come on down. I have all the tooling to do the job but I don't have time to do it so you need to do it yourself. I can show you how to use the mill if you need the instuction. The mill is a Wells Index larger and heavier than a Bridgeport it is a Boeing surplus item. I have a plasma torch large band saw everything you need just let me know I even have a 250 Miller with spool gun but it looks like you have the welding equipment.

Mike
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Re: Pilothouse

#68

Post by goatram »

Thanks Mike!
But the engine would have to drop lower in relation to the Hull. and a jack plate might not work with the hyd. steering. more research on that is needed. Anyone use one before?

Last night I got to thinking Drill the four bottom holes with the engine located as it sits. Right now the engine is on and it is straight. I drill the holes and then remove the engine and cut the transom by two inches on the top and then weld a closure plate to the top. The local Yamaha dealer recommended that also along with a new prop. A four blade one.
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Re: Pilothouse

#69

Post by goatram »

Well a change to my previous post is needed. I had the boat out in Neah Bay, WA for three days of fishing and it did good. It was a shake down cruise with the fishing as the main course. Ran the boat for about 15 hours total time on the water and had a few hiccups that where solved as they came up. First thing was the two battery's are dead on launch at 5am Thursday. Pull the Batt. out of the truck and she fires up and charging, leave that as a spare just in case. fished that day and got our limit for four guys; 4 Halibut, 8 Lingcod, and 40 Seabass.

Friday no issues. On Thursday turned off the Batt Switch.

Saturday was the wild day on the water. We headed out to get the Lingcod and the water was great compared to the first two days. We were catching and releasing the small ones looking for just the right size had 5 in the box and one 35 lb Hali when I noticed the swim step had about 4" of water over the top of it. I do not understand because I already tested the Bilge pump and it worked. I look for the stream of water and don't see it; tell every one of the problem and tell them to pull in the lines and start heading in. I open the main bilge inside the boat and its dry. I pull the plug on the extension and it is shooting water in to the bilge. I let it run for a minute and then put the plug in and the pump handles it with no problems. Let some more in and also pull the extension's pump's hose and its not pumping. Burned out pump was the diagnoses after checking the fuse. Thursday's dead battery issue is now clear. We get the boat up on plane and the water is still coming in so the plug is in the back of the boat. We get the extension drained into the boat and out. The swim step is high and dry.
We still need three more Halibut and Lings each. So we change direction and head to the Butt Hole.

The water was coming in through two holes on my kicker bracket that I did not seal up. the kicker bracket is a box welded to the swim step and the drains were from the manufacturer. I will be plugging them and adding a drain plug to it.

At the end of the day we were short of the limit by 1 Halibut and three lings. I also had time to look at the motor while at speed. The engine was raised last light and not lowered as my previous post said that it was needed.

This weeks trip looks like it will not happen do to the Wetsand forcast 8' to 15' swell off the coast. NOAA is calling for a little less but still ugly.
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Re: Pilothouse

#70

Post by goatram »

I went to a small boat show at the Tulalip Casino Near my home today and Looked at the new boats and had wet dreams. Did find out that I mounted my trim taps upside down. The outboard edges are turned down instead of up. It causes a spray issue at speed.I had the boat out on the water Friday and Saturday and it is handling better with the motor raised by one hole. have a buddy with a couple of Yamaha Saltwater Props that I will play with to see if it helps at all. I am running around at 5600- 5800 Rpm on a Yamaha F150 four stroke. 17/15 1/4prop on it now.
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Re: Pilothouse

#71

Post by pjay9 »

What's red line on those big 150's? If it is 6k looks like you are where it should be. What is your SOG looking like now with the extra lift? Or is the increase in wetted surface keeping it about the same.
Last year there was a fellow down here with a Raider and a 90 on a 182 Prosport with extension against my 185 Profish (Deepr V) two folks up on both boats and he was pulling away very slightly, maybe a boat length in a mile, which could have been many fuctions but the big diff as we pulled boats out on the trailers was the deeper v of my boat, so the wetted surface could have some speed differences...BUT the overall redo appears to be a fine success...enjoy hearing the reports and seeing the pics...show us some pics of the fish too! Isn't this what it is all about?!!! Capt PJ :thumbsup:
2009 Raider 185 Pro Fisherman, 2005 90Yamaha, 2012 Yamaha9.9HT, 2008 EzLoader roller, 2004 Dodge TCD dually, 2005/2015 Lance1161
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goatram
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Re: Pilothouse

#72

Post by goatram »

Still captured in the camara along with last weeks shrimp from Eastern Bank.
John Risser aka goatram
33' RBW with twin 250 Hondas (Aliens)
2015 Ford F350 Dually
Master of R&D aka Ripoff and Duplicate
pipes0000
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Re: Pilothouse

#73

Post by pipes0000 »

the boat looks great,,,I have been thinking about building a 23' pilothouse from specmar,,,so watching and reading this thread has been great,I love watching a project come together,,,time well spent..Thanks for taking the time to post all those build pic's.Pete :beer:
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2006 Wooldridge Alaskan 17' ,Yamaha 115/80 jet
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goatram
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Re: Pilothouse

#74

Post by goatram »

pipes if you liked mine This one is better. it has me dreaming of a new welder and the possibilities of a nicer ride. Already started to talk to a certain local builder of buying his plans for a 27' alloy Boat cut down from 29'

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=290507
John Risser aka goatram
33' RBW with twin 250 Hondas (Aliens)
2015 Ford F350 Dually
Master of R&D aka Ripoff and Duplicate
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Re: Pilothouse

#75

Post by optomist »

Hello Goatram,

my name is Chris and I am new to this forum. After many hours of scouring the internet I found this post of yours and after many more hours of reading your posts, I am a big fan of yours! With very little welding/fabricating experience, I decided that I would design and build an aluminium cabin for my old 95' 21ft Hewescraft (used to have a canvas top). I am quickly realizing how difficult of a task this is, as nothing on the boat is straight (rails are sloped away, the existing windshield angles in and back, etc.)

I really like the look of the your build, and would love to do something similar.

Wondering how you managed to bend your rectangular tube into nice arches for the roof supports? Did you make relief cuts? Or do you have access to a CNC bender or something?

Any and all advice is very much appreciated. I will post some pics of what I am working with in the next couple of days.

Thanks!
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