Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
The last fishing trip of the season I noticed a crack in the frame of my boat trailer at bend in front of the axles where the crossmember bolts on. The roads in Alaska are terrible and trailers take a beating. I have my own ideas how to fix it but was wondering if anyone else has successfully dealt with this problem before? Any info anyone could share would be greatly appreciated. These are last year brand new axles, tires and brakes so I'm not ready to give up on the trailer and buy new yet.
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- This is how I strap the boat down for trailering
- 20180816_134041-1280x720.jpg (79.49 KiB) Viewed 30471 times
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Crack in frame
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- 20180816_131416-1280x720.jpg (61.62 KiB) Viewed 30469 times
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Location of crack
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- Crack is at bend in frame in front of axle where crossmember bolts on
- 20180816_134021-1280x720.jpg (63.78 KiB) Viewed 30469 times
- gandrfab
- Posts: 600
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Just a guess, that cross brace is holding the bulk of the hull weight and only has 2 bolts on each side holding it in place.
If so and as fun as it does not sound. I would through bolt the inside of the I beam to the cross beam.
Then jack up the front bunks some to help even the weight out.
If those assumptions are all wrong I would grind the crack and weld, add a plate at least the thickness of the I-beam fit it so it touches the whole width of the top,bottom flanges and height of the web. Weld all around in between the bolts.
Just grinding out and welding the crack would cover the problem but not correct it.
If so and as fun as it does not sound. I would through bolt the inside of the I beam to the cross beam.
Then jack up the front bunks some to help even the weight out.
If those assumptions are all wrong I would grind the crack and weld, add a plate at least the thickness of the I-beam fit it so it touches the whole width of the top,bottom flanges and height of the web. Weld all around in between the bolts.
Just grinding out and welding the crack would cover the problem but not correct it.
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Yep, stress crack due to the bottom flange rolling, the cross member is causing the flex and repeated flexing will cause cracks. I would contact the trailer manufacturer 1st to see if they have a fix for you. If they don't then I would look at plates and stiffeners to beef up the areas where the crossmembers meet the rails.
Welding on the frame could weaken it if not done correctly.
And of course make sure the trailer is completely level and supported all the way around before attempting any repairs as you don't want to build in a warped frame.
Welding on the frame could weaken it if not done correctly.
And of course make sure the trailer is completely level and supported all the way around before attempting any repairs as you don't want to build in a warped frame.
Lester,
PacificV2325, Honda BF225
2386
PacificV2325, Honda BF225
2386
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Thanks for the ideas! I did talk to the manufacture and they said anything i do to fix the frame would just be a band aide and would happen again sooner or later. Bottom Liine was they were more interested in selling me a new trailer.
So I think I'm going try and fix this by getting the widest C channel that will fit in the web of the I - beam, bend it in a press to match the bend in the trailer frame on the inside AND outside, then through bolt the inside AND outside C channels to sandwich the cracked frame. Then use the bottom leg of the C channel to through bolt the crossmember too from the bottom. No welding. Other than welding over the crack. Just bolts sandwiching everything together. I'm worried welding across the I beam will weaken it to much.
I know about crevice corrosion and overlapping aluminum is bad but I think the moisture will drain from behind the C channel and it will last a long time. What do you think?
So I think I'm going try and fix this by getting the widest C channel that will fit in the web of the I - beam, bend it in a press to match the bend in the trailer frame on the inside AND outside, then through bolt the inside AND outside C channels to sandwich the cracked frame. Then use the bottom leg of the C channel to through bolt the crossmember too from the bottom. No welding. Other than welding over the crack. Just bolts sandwiching everything together. I'm worried welding across the I beam will weaken it to much.
I know about crevice corrosion and overlapping aluminum is bad but I think the moisture will drain from behind the C channel and it will last a long time. What do you think?
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- 20181008_142525-1328x747.jpg (54.89 KiB) Viewed 30438 times
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Bunk and inside crossmember
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- 20181008_142920-747x1328.jpg (37.29 KiB) Viewed 30438 times
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Tfitz,
the top of the bent beam is flexing in and outward (reference the centerline of the trailer) or the break failure wouldn't be at the bottom of the inverted T of the I beam.
So, gouge out- weld and then put a gusset from the box cross beam up to the top flange with a or a V brace (looking down) - one in front of the bend and one aft- to help the I beam remain in column- not to flex in and out at the top flange.
Also widening the top flange will stop this type of failure- using a plate of the same thickness as the flange- and making a bolt on replacement/reinforcing flange that is 2x the width of the I's flange, then using small bolts (or welding at the flange to replacement flange lap joint) you'd also create a flange that will keep the web from flexing in and out- which is what caused this crack.
It possible the alloy (6061?) and shape at the web to flange extrusion curve (cross section of beam at the transition) was bent at a too small radius for this particular beam's section? don't know where to find that info- but cold working an I is somewhat better than hot work in regard future stiffness.
By 'trapping' the top flange's in and out movement the web is stabilized at the lower flange and the beam will probably be fine.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
the top of the bent beam is flexing in and outward (reference the centerline of the trailer) or the break failure wouldn't be at the bottom of the inverted T of the I beam.
So, gouge out- weld and then put a gusset from the box cross beam up to the top flange with a or a V brace (looking down) - one in front of the bend and one aft- to help the I beam remain in column- not to flex in and out at the top flange.
Also widening the top flange will stop this type of failure- using a plate of the same thickness as the flange- and making a bolt on replacement/reinforcing flange that is 2x the width of the I's flange, then using small bolts (or welding at the flange to replacement flange lap joint) you'd also create a flange that will keep the web from flexing in and out- which is what caused this crack.
It possible the alloy (6061?) and shape at the web to flange extrusion curve (cross section of beam at the transition) was bent at a too small radius for this particular beam's section? don't know where to find that info- but cold working an I is somewhat better than hot work in regard future stiffness.
By 'trapping' the top flange's in and out movement the web is stabilized at the lower flange and the beam will probably be fine.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
You can see the dip in the I beam at the crossmember attachment point. I believe it's the weight of the boat bouncing that is making the I beam crack and separate. By doubling up the crossmember attaching point and stiffening the I beam with 6061 C channel and bolting it all together it should hold. The weld you see in the photo was a last minute temporary fix just to make it work for one last fishing trip. And it looks like it held with out cracking again on the 700 mile round trip Valdez goat trail.
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- I believe it's the weight of the boat that is pulling the I beam apart from where the crossmember attaches
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- The entire weight of the boat is placed on these cross members which attach to the bottom of the I beam trailer frame with 3 bolts
- 20180829_102938-1024x576.jpg (74.63 KiB) Viewed 30426 times
- gandrfab
- Posts: 600
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
I would be a little pissed off about that. Not going into detail, but I would mention something along the lines of trailer life and not buying a new one from them.
What ever you go with I would still look into taking some of the weight off that cross beam by putting more weight on other load bearing points.
Good luck.
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
The trailer IS 14 years old. And the load IS right at the trailers rated limit. And the frost heaves on Alaska roads ARE really bad. So I don't really have a problem with the trailer manufacturer. And I should take some blame for this too. The week before I had a fuel pump go out mid trip. We got back to port on the kicker but I still had 75 gals of gas onboard. I trailered the boat home like that and that's when this problem happened. I really should get a heavier trailer for this boat but I would like to get a few more years out of these new axles, tires and brakes I installed last year. I think if I keep the boat light as possible, slow down and make some minor changes how I strap the boat down it will still work for now. My next trailer will be galvenized steel.
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Tfitz, the point-load on the bottom flange would also be reduced by the cross member-to-top-flange bracing as that would re-load the I-beam in the full section- not solely the bottom flange. By triangulating the load- so the cross member pulls down on both top and bottom in a fixed triangle- the flex- in an out- of the top flange and web base goes away. Same as building connectors- load I beams uniformly in section or from the top- not the bottom.
Just a note about carpeted bunks! evens sloped as well as yours appear? they are a notorious source of 'bunk rot' or corrosion of the aluminum by holding a thin film or water against the hull-as the carpet can't dry out very well when its compressed by the bottom onto the wood bunk.
Plastic bunk covers are worth the time, they drain fully and they don't contribute to de-areated water film held to the hull.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
Just a note about carpeted bunks! evens sloped as well as yours appear? they are a notorious source of 'bunk rot' or corrosion of the aluminum by holding a thin film or water against the hull-as the carpet can't dry out very well when its compressed by the bottom onto the wood bunk.
Plastic bunk covers are worth the time, they drain fully and they don't contribute to de-areated water film held to the hull.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Based on past experience I've come to realize that MOST of the time when I don't listen to what you are telling me to do....I regret it later. SO I will try to incorporate a gusset or V brace into my C channel design. Since I just bought a 25' piece of 4" 6061 C-channel for this repair. I think the channel will distribute the load and stiffen the beam, and the gusset will reduce flexing. I don't won't to weld on the I beam though, I'll bolt things together. And yes the carpet bunks were on the list to be replaced with plastic covers as soon as I locate some good ones
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Got the trailer out to where I can work on it now! I have a plan and it's going to be Beluga strong when done!!
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- 20181013_200158-resized-1280.jpg (93.09 KiB) Viewed 30208 times
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Whats the best way to weld this crack and make this area strong again? I could mig it and grind it smooth but I think it won't have much strength. I'm adding the two 1/4" × 4" C channels and support the crossmember off the C channel legs so I'm thinking that will add the strength.
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- Cracked crossmember bolt up hole
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- Inside C channel
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- 20181016_202531-576x1024.jpg (36.93 KiB) Viewed 30180 times
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Tfitz,
the weld shown is cold lapped. the lower edge is not fused to the flange top surface- but the top is fused to the vertical web surface; although the start and stop need work. I'd suggest grinding this out, gouging the weld metal out and using run-in blocks. This is a piece of 3/16" or so plate about 2" x 2" to start on- and to stop on- these would be bend outward when done and the weld's start and stop wouldn't have a cold start or a crater point stop? If your new 4" channels will not interfere or lay on this weld (?) THEN; its not nearly as important. However if the channel will overlap the weld- meaning you'll be taking the head or crown of this weld off??? then it become important that the root (remaining after flattening/sanding) becomes more fused on all sides: start, top, toe and end.
to my eye the lower edge of this MIG weld shows a cold 'curl' or beading up not the line of fusion seen at the top. If I were using MIG to do this I'd preheat to 230-250 F using a temp crayon to reduce the fusion issues trying to weld to a huge cross section. The beam's thickness is greatest at this particular spot- where the vertical web curves into the flange shape; the two elements are radius-ed and that makes this cracked area thicker so MIG is very hard to adjust.
MIG depends on uniform thickness- AND a voltage setting that is adequate compared to the wire feed speed to deposit a fully fused weld on both (all) edges. That is very tough to adjust due to the thickness of this area of the beam. Temp crayons or temp sticks are wax crayons that melt at a given temp. However using temp sticks/crayons to get a targeted preheat will make a MIG weld SO much more reliable in this area. I do realize that heating the beam (a heat treated alloy) to get a good weld is a compromise- but.... the lower edge shows its needed.
To repair the flange, I'd cut a V along the crack with a burr, or a U shaped gouge. Then I'd add a flange doubler the entire length of the curve of the beam's bend. So a 12" to 18" long strip, cut to the width of the bottom flange plus 1/2" (width so a 1/4" inside and out) of 1/4" or 3/8" material. I'd prefer to use 5086 over 6061 due to the increased tensile of that alloy.
I'd weld a lap joint along both outside flange edges; after grooving into the bottom of the flange. This weld would only contract along the line of the weld seam- so the flange would not be weakened- but stiffened and the tension load on the bottom flange would be reinforced by the added flange thickness which will distribute to the new, lower, flange doubler of 5086.
When the crack is welded up- with a V or U shaped groove all the way through to the flange doubler - that weld would 'pick up' or fuse to the new added doubler flange. So the bottom flange would be welded to a doubler below and that material would be edge welded (outer edge lap welded) to the flange.
So; both directions this failure point would be reinforced. I'd re-drill the holes in the bottom flange after all the welding was done. The new bottom flange doubler will lower the cross member by it's thickness- but I don't see that being critical to the re-install of the bunk mount? If it is- re drill the vertical mount plate into the bunks.
Hope this make sense without sketches?
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
the weld shown is cold lapped. the lower edge is not fused to the flange top surface- but the top is fused to the vertical web surface; although the start and stop need work. I'd suggest grinding this out, gouging the weld metal out and using run-in blocks. This is a piece of 3/16" or so plate about 2" x 2" to start on- and to stop on- these would be bend outward when done and the weld's start and stop wouldn't have a cold start or a crater point stop? If your new 4" channels will not interfere or lay on this weld (?) THEN; its not nearly as important. However if the channel will overlap the weld- meaning you'll be taking the head or crown of this weld off??? then it become important that the root (remaining after flattening/sanding) becomes more fused on all sides: start, top, toe and end.
to my eye the lower edge of this MIG weld shows a cold 'curl' or beading up not the line of fusion seen at the top. If I were using MIG to do this I'd preheat to 230-250 F using a temp crayon to reduce the fusion issues trying to weld to a huge cross section. The beam's thickness is greatest at this particular spot- where the vertical web curves into the flange shape; the two elements are radius-ed and that makes this cracked area thicker so MIG is very hard to adjust.
MIG depends on uniform thickness- AND a voltage setting that is adequate compared to the wire feed speed to deposit a fully fused weld on both (all) edges. That is very tough to adjust due to the thickness of this area of the beam. Temp crayons or temp sticks are wax crayons that melt at a given temp. However using temp sticks/crayons to get a targeted preheat will make a MIG weld SO much more reliable in this area. I do realize that heating the beam (a heat treated alloy) to get a good weld is a compromise- but.... the lower edge shows its needed.
To repair the flange, I'd cut a V along the crack with a burr, or a U shaped gouge. Then I'd add a flange doubler the entire length of the curve of the beam's bend. So a 12" to 18" long strip, cut to the width of the bottom flange plus 1/2" (width so a 1/4" inside and out) of 1/4" or 3/8" material. I'd prefer to use 5086 over 6061 due to the increased tensile of that alloy.
I'd weld a lap joint along both outside flange edges; after grooving into the bottom of the flange. This weld would only contract along the line of the weld seam- so the flange would not be weakened- but stiffened and the tension load on the bottom flange would be reinforced by the added flange thickness which will distribute to the new, lower, flange doubler of 5086.
When the crack is welded up- with a V or U shaped groove all the way through to the flange doubler - that weld would 'pick up' or fuse to the new added doubler flange. So the bottom flange would be welded to a doubler below and that material would be edge welded (outer edge lap welded) to the flange.
So; both directions this failure point would be reinforced. I'd re-drill the holes in the bottom flange after all the welding was done. The new bottom flange doubler will lower the cross member by it's thickness- but I don't see that being critical to the re-install of the bunk mount? If it is- re drill the vertical mount plate into the bunks.
Hope this make sense without sketches?
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
When i made that weld on the frame i could barely see and was out of position because the boat was still on the trailer. I knew i would be doing it over. It got me there and back on my last fishing trip so it worked out ok. You really think I need to add a doubler on the bottom of the frame to stiffen it and add strength to support the crossmember? Remember I'm adding 2 ea 1/4" C channels to do that very thing. I'm going to through bolt the crossmember to the lower leg of the new C channel so the new C channel will be carrying most of the crossmember weight. I am hesitant to do allot of welding on the trailer frame when I can double the strength by bolting channel on
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
you asked, I just replied to that question. The crack completely compromises the side to side (lateral moment resistance) of the beam's lower edge. So the doubler is to address that- alone.
Yes, I realize you're sistering/fishplating/sandwiching the original web with both new web and added flanges- I was addressing a single question not the overall repair.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
When i saw the cracks in the I beam bottom I realized I needed to do everything I could to strengthen this area so i thought the 1/4" doubler Will definitely help. Thanks Kmorin for the suggestion!
I tried to reweld but I'm not sure how much difference I really made. I preheated and had good position but it was hard to get good fusion on the thicker bottom and avoid undercutting the thinner top of the weld. I think it will be ok but the strength will come from the bolt on stiffeners not the welds. I only did one side this weekend then ran out of argon gas so I'll hopefully get the other side this week
I tried to reweld but I'm not sure how much difference I really made. I preheated and had good position but it was hard to get good fusion on the thicker bottom and avoid undercutting the thinner top of the weld. I think it will be ok but the strength will come from the bolt on stiffeners not the welds. I only did one side this weekend then ran out of argon gas so I'll hopefully get the other side this week
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- Bottom of I beam cracks
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- Ground out my first weld to do over
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- These welds don't look much better than my first ones
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- Added a 1/4" doubled to the I beam bottom
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- Doubler welded in along outer edges only
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
I'm finally ready to get this boat back on the repaired trailer. If that earthquake was closer to Fairbanks I could have lost my shop AND boat the way the boat was supported from my shop trusses during this trailer repair job. This repair appears strong to me. All cross tie members are double reinforced with through bolted on gussets. The repair at the H beam bend seems solid. The inside and outside through bolted C channel makes the H beam web 3/4" thick! And that assembly is bolted to the steel axle plate which should make it very rigid to resist flexing.
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- Replaced the Cypress bow bunk supports with aluminum C-channel. You can also see the 4" C
-channel I bolted inside and out to the H beam bend to strengthen the cracked area. - 20181203_192734-resized-1024.jpg (78.15 KiB) Viewed 29679 times
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- Made some stronger bunk supports and installed th a stiff arm support. I don't think these will break again.
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Tfitz, my only question is about the new liner 4" channels- did they bolt in above the repair welds- or did you have to round the outside of their web to flange corner to allow for the increased curvature of the repair welds?
Not that is makes super critical difference, just curious? I'd have left the lower edge of the 4" channel 1/2" to 3/4" (as needed) above the curved flange to web fillet weld in order to leave the weld full profile and still get the full gain of the added in channels' cross section.
Looks like you'll be good for more trips to Valdez.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
Not that is makes super critical difference, just curious? I'd have left the lower edge of the 4" channel 1/2" to 3/4" (as needed) above the curved flange to web fillet weld in order to leave the weld full profile and still get the full gain of the added in channels' cross section.
Looks like you'll be good for more trips to Valdez.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
I left the crown on the welds and the C-channel liner intact by centering it on the H beam web. That left enough gap to accommodate the weld. And that C channel is anchored to the axle plate on both sides of the H beam so it should really resist flexing. I also coated all aluminum to aluminum bolted surfaces with Corrosion X. For whatever that's worth.
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- C-channel on both sides and through bolted
- 20181204_200759-resized-1024.jpg (53.51 KiB) Viewed 29648 times
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- Gussets at every crossmember on both sides through bolted
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- Crossmember gusset and tie down Strap antichafe bracket
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Strapped down and almost ready to roll again. The last thing on my trailer todo list is install a new Fulton F2 trailer tonge jack and it arrives Friday. Hope it last awhile, My past experience with trailer jacks has always been disappointing. Just plain junk. Supposedly this one has a lifetime warrentee. I'll probably put it to the test.
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Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
I have a similar issue. All the advice is buy a new trailer. I don’t want to buy a new trailer and have it crack like most others have.
Re: Cracked Trailer frame repair ideas
Cracked trailer