23' Black Lab/Honda 225 engine mounting height

[Nat]

Help me out here if you can ?

I'm fixin to move my 225 up 1 hole , it's now mounted in the second hole from the top and the centerline of the bottom of the hull is about 1" above the lower fin on the outboard foot ( using a straight edge ) when in the trimmed down position on the trailer

problem is the sweet spot running the boat is trimmed way way up from the trimmed down position.

you really can't run the boat with the motor trimmed down

I want to raise the motor so I don't have to run trimmed up so high

suggestions


warning

my last outboard was a 18hp 1958 evinrude

[welder]

Nat , I'm fixen to do the same thing but I am going to try 2 holes up. When I do it , I will reuse the bolts but I will change out the Nuts.

Floor jack , Piece of rubber [ on the floor jack ], Safety rope and rock and roll

[AlloyToy]

I have a 150hp 25" on my 23. Started on hole 2 and am on hole 4....and I think I could go one more if I had it. Boat runs clean at this location trimmed properly. People can't believe it's only a 150. Between that and the repropping It's like a new boat....but I'm on the low HP end for this hull this is why I played

[Tin Cup]

I started a post on this earlier, I'm dealing with the same issue. I'm running a 140 on a 20' Pacific. I had a local marina ($20) raise my engine up from the lowest to the 3rd hole early in the season. The result was a 25% gain in efficiency, I'm gonna go up one more to the last hole at the end of the season, I still don't think it will be high enough. A jack plate will be on my next boat. :shock:

From my research, your lower fin (anti cav plate) should at the waterline when on plane. When looking at it on the trailer when trimmed out, the anti cav plate should be at or higher then the centerline of the hull. 1" higher per 12" back is a rule of thumb. Your probably at least 2" too low currently, given your mounting bracket.

[AlloyToy]

I see so many boats OTW that have now clue how to trim their boats out. To some they don't care but for me it means $$$$$ If you see water spray shooting vertical upward you need to raise it.....

[welder]

Tin Cup, it's a ALLOY boat , drill 4 more holes to get the height you want.

[Tin Cup]

Welder, great suggestion. It looks like I could gain 1 more inch by drilling new mounting holes, this may be about perfect if raising it to the 4th hole doesn't do the trick.

[JETTYWOLF]

A real on the water test besides everything else mentioned is the famous "Jay Perotta sea-trial test."

Find some close crab trap bouys (southern boys) or Lobsta trap bouys (for northern boys) and go as fast as the boat will go and slalom thru them at warp speed. Thus leaning the boat over like no tomarrow. Get the boat riding the rail!!!!

If it breaks out of it's bite at anything but obviously over trimmed. You'll probably be too high.

My dad and I had to hang on the hard top for dear life doing the "JPSTT".....but then again, I was SOLD! But was sure lovin' Jay's obviously "practiced" sea-trialing technique.

The secret was, I was sold on a BLM when I got my butt on the plane when leaving Jax Fla. for Portland ME. to go see Jay.

[AlloyToy]

Welder, great suggestion. It looks like I could gain 1 more inch by drilling new mounting holes, this may be about perfect if raising it to the 4th hole doesn't do the trick.

Ahhhhh.....the ole "extra inch" trick

[Nat]

Okay

I'm gonna go up 2 holes and see how she does

it may take a week or so to report back....



Jwolf

I have never been able to turn sharp enough at WOT to break the prop lose, It will cut as tight as I am brave enough to run it
without breaking free......

[Nat]

I started a post on this earlier, I'm dealing with the same issue. I'm running a 140 on a 20' Pacific. I had a local marina ($20) raise my engine up from the lowest to the 3rd hole early in the season. The result was a 25% gain in efficiency, I'm gonna go up one more to the last hole at the end of the season, I still don't think it will be high enough. A jack plate will be on my next boat. :shock:

From my research, your lower fin (anti cav plate) should at the waterline when on plane. When looking at it on the trailer when trimmed out, the anti cav plate should be at or higher then the centerline of the hull. 1" higher per 12" back is a rule of thumb. Your probably at least 2" too low currently, given your mounting bracket.

I'm curious if it changed the ride any at all

I'm guesiing it did not, while wishing for a little better head sea ride

[AlloyToy]

Nat head seas on these boats if running hard can be quite interesting :shock: What I find is by trimming my motor up I can raise the bow and punch thru the seas. All this while only able to do around 18-23 MPH....after that have rain gear on and hold on cause we are gonna get WET!!! Now I only have a 150 which is lighter in stern that a 250 would be.

Alone screw it I'll do 28-30mph in any sea beating the hell otta myself, but with the wife and kids 150 gallons of water coming over the hardtop just doesn't give them that feeling of "it's gonna be a fun day fishing"

What are you trying to gain Nat?? Drier ride, more comfortable ride.....?

[Nat]

trying to gain a few things

My honda gets a good drenching from spray in a cross wind, so I'd like to eliminate the spray as much as possible and eliminate running with the engine trimmed so far up. Running trimmed down it will porpose and you never really get the sweet spot where the hull breaks loose and runs best.
So, if we can relocate the sweet spot where the hull really breaks loose and runs best to a position with the engine closer to the vertical position rather than trimmed so high it may fix several things along with running more efficient
I hope

I do get alot of creaking noise from the hyd trim or the engine mount, almost like it's in a bind when running in rough seas, the creaking noise gets worse the longer you run the boat. Early in the day, it's quiet, mid day it's a little worse and late in the afternoon it's very noticeable. Took it to a good shop and had them check everything. On the trailer they find nothing out of adjustment and no odd creaking noise, nothing loose. In the water it's a differant story. I need to video it .
I have several people onboard listen and watch, but can't locate the reason for the noise. It's sounds like the transom is flexing, but I don't think it is.
after seeing the thread with the broken engine brakets, I really went to looking at everything, but find nothing that is the obvious source of the noise. (The noise that alrams everyone on the boat because it sounds like something is in a seriuos strain)

adjusting things so the engine runs in a more vertical position really would not change the strain or stress on the mounts,brakets or transom....I don't guess

I'm curious what the reasons are for the factory rigging the motor this low , maybe there is a logical reason ?????

I have learned to avoid uncomfortable head seas with my wife onboard.....Next boat I buy, I know to take her for a sea trial on a rough day,,,,we'll get a plate alloy cat hull I would guess>>>>>

[Tin Cup]

I started a post on this earlier, I'm dealing with the same issue. I'm running a 140 on a 20' Pacific. I had a local marina ($20) raise my engine up from the lowest to the 3rd hole early in the season. The result was a 25% gain in efficiency, I'm gonna go up one more to the last hole at the end of the season, I still don't think it will be high enough. A jack plate will be on my next boat. :shock:

From my research, your lower fin (anti cav plate) should at the waterline when on plane. When looking at it on the trailer when trimmed out, the anti cav plate should be at or higher then the centerline of the hull. 1" higher per 12" back is a rule of thumb. Your probably at least 2" too low currently, given your mounting bracket.

I'm curious if it changed the ride any at all

I'm guesiing it did not, while wishing for a little better head sea ride

My mounting adjustments did not change the ride, only engine performance & efficiency. It's a wet ride when the wind picks up, the hard top keeps me dry ... not so much for passengers :sad: . This and lack of bait well are the top two things that I would want to address if I ever trade up. It seems the vertical hull design doesn't throw the water away from the boat. I spent a lot of time on a 22' Mako this summer, its a drier ride. I still would not trade my alloy for glass, too many other benefits for the alloy / Pacific self-bailing design.

I've not experienced the creaking sound, IMHO get the engine adjusted correctly and go from there. The engine housing is designed to get drenched, not sure you can do much to prevent this or need to worry about it.

You can get a lot more experienced opinions and insight then mine on this forum... good luck!!!

[AlloyToy]

Nat, could it be the Hyd. steering binding under load? Have you checked the fluid level in the helm pump? Greased the motor at all points?...just throwing things out.

I've pounded through seas getting caught 20 plus miles out and came home in a steep (4-7 footers) head sea and have yet to hear any kind of creaking on my craft, but you may want to speak with Occams to see if he heard any noise leading up to his motor bolt issues.

I believe with some simple hull modifications these boats would run much drier in a head sea. Simple rails to break the spray would help big time. I've also thought about an aggressive sand blast to the underside to get the hull to release quicker thus increasing speed and the quality of the run (I think???) As the hull is now sheets of water follow right up the sides and over the gunnel cap. Even a break point at the gunnel cap would help. I'd be interested to hear/see the difference in the dryness with the boats that have the alum rub rails welded down the sides. It really doesn't take much to break that spray...it just needs something to hit to do it.

Not sure who rigged your boat but I've owned many and rigged everyone myself, and if I didn't rig it then I reirigged I should say. I honestly think dealers rig them on the conservative side. Have a buddy boat with a video camera follow you and zoom in on the hull & motor at various speeds. You will see it quite nicely. I believe you are correct if the motor is not at the correct height you will add improper strain to the motor just like having it propped wrong.

[welder]

Nat , I sure wish you would have got together with me on one of my trip to Florida so we could compare notes and swap lies.

Mine creaks some and I have narrowed it down to the Hyd. steering and make sure I hit all the Grease points on the motor often that keeps the squeaks to a minimum .

As you were told , these boats are not Contenders or Cape Horns , They do not run 40 MPH in head seas BUT they will carry a bunch of weight and keep moving in heavy seas.

Are you hitting the waves head on ? I hit them at a angle and use one of my tabs to left the chine up and keep the spray down. Last trip to Pensacola I was in some snotty water 20+ miles out and I had to go west to get north but that kept me moving at 20 MPH and dry.

I don't like it when my smokes get wet .

[Lucky Louie]

Are you hitting the waves head on ? I hit them at a angle and use one of my tabs to left the chine up and keep the spray down. Last trip to Pensacola I was in some snotty water 20+ miles out and I had to go west to (My boat kept tryin to head to Venice LA for some reason) get north but that kept me moving at 20 MPH and dry.

I don't like it when my smokes get wet .

Fixed it for ya Welder.

That day the Gulf of Mexico was a sho-nuff washing machine. Welder was quartering the waves consistantly at the same angle to keep our smokes dry. Only for one of us to look up from time to time at the plotter and see the wave pattern had changed and we were actually going in another direction.

But the boat steadily moved along and our smokes stayed dry.

[welder]

Thanks for the learning Don

[JETTYWOLF]

LITTLE KNOWN SECRET......

They don't call it TELE-FLEX steering for the heck of it.

You can be your wet BVD's that you have to keep that "tiller tube" that has the bar running thru inwhich the steering is attached to, nice and "LUBED".

I didn't realize mine got kind dry and it too was binding. A quick fix is just un-do the nuts and re-grease and put nuts back on tight. If it binds, you'll get some squeaking. And horrable wear on the SS rod.
I am on the every 6 months to a year plan, now. After realizing that the rod has to stay nice and moist on me Honda.
(as with any steering system I'd guess)

Another place you'll get some sqeaks and squawks is the bottom of the trim motor, where it pivots on the shaft. I believe they all make that tweek every once in awhile. It's the bottom that's always in the water and suseptable to grime.
I every so often soak it with some lube, when I know I won't be going anywhere for a few days. To let it soak in a bit.

Remember, your boat ain't some "muffling" tender glass boat. Sounds do resinate......hell I can hear Dolphins clicks and squeels thru my hull when I have a pack of Flippers all around....nature of the beast and, I LIKE IT!

I'd gather out of the Pacifics here at AAB I most likey use mine more than most. And beat it way more then most. Not intentionally, but it's the cost of doing business. Man, can it take it too!

Like thay say, "don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff."

[Nat]

jetty

what hole is your Honda mounted in on the 26' BLM

[JETTYWOLF]

4th from bottom and / or one down from top. (5 holes on engine mount)

After all this talk, I went and changed my oil, and filter (Mobile one was on sale, and free Mobile one filter came with...)
Re-greezed all my trailer wheel bearings, greezed the engine greeze points, and pulled out that rod in the tiller tube and re-greezed it. And yeah in 6 months since the last time the SS rod was a bit dry.

And added some cans of good ole SEA FOAM to the fuel tanks, along with 18 gallons of gas, after purging my Racor Filter. (will get me thru 3 charters)
If Mojo was on the boat that would be not enough. But works for me.

I haven't filled the tank in 3 years....I don't need 150 gallons in there.

Guess, I'll do the lower unit today, if I'm not Tow/Boating this afternoon.

[Nat]

I am taking mine to the Honda dealer, the PGMI alarm started sounding, I think it's a bad o2 sensor

just had the 200 hr service done on mine,the oil was dirty,plugs were dirty, fuel filters were nice and clean, only changed the racor filter
I used castrol edge full synthetic


thermostats were shot, one was stuck open and i think it caused it to run rich


Mines 2 years old and been greased 5 times, maybe I'm greasing it too much



went ahead and raised her 1 hole, so next weekend I'll give it a trial if the Honda shop is done with it

[welder]

For you guys that have motors that are sill under warranty I would stay with HONDA products [ Oil and Filters ] It could mean the difference of about 20K coming out of your pocket .

[welder]

Jettywolf, CANS OF SEAFOAM to 18 gallons of gas . You said CANS dude.

One can treats like 18 to 20 gallons of fuel , are you trying to melt the O-rings out of that motor ? There is also a TIME interval they recommend to treat your motor.

My Honda Tech. said to use Yamaha Ring Free unless your Pump Gas had Technroline [ spl ] in it .

[JETTYWOLF]

yeah can's.......into about 70 gallons. That's not heavy, it's deluted.
Reccomended to keep her clean (fuel system, moisture??)
I do alot of slow speed slugging around and never hardly break 4,ooo rpm, so maybe just the crabber engines that friends have, the mechanic has them use it too every once inawhile.

I rarely use anything. Cause if it ain't broke.... :roll:
Last time was at maybe 450 hrs and now I have a GRAND. Not Bad, next month on the 18th is her 3rd birthday 333 hrs per year, not all that terrible, really.

I maybe able to get a rebuilt 225 Honda as a spare engine for about $2,500 or so....My (not warrenty) Mechanic works for them over zelous coasties and gets to rebuild throw away engines. My neighbor just boaught one for his Crab boat for $2500.
Might be well worth it to have one on a wood stand in the ole Garage, huh?? Was thinking about a ""extended extended"" used engine warrenty after the Honda warrenty. But of course can't get any info on them either. Just really "used" cars, but not outboards.

Did the Lower Unit lube today (West marine brand of course). HONDA = 1.24 qts. Just like the oil, 8.3 Qt's.....Just like Owner hooks, they come in a package of 52 or 57 in the pro pak's of Muto light circles......those dang Japanese and their funky measurements.

Now all's done...every fluid, every greeze point. Plugs a month or so before.

Still can't find a 2 micron Racor filter. I see they have them, but obviously not where I shop.
Don't know if it's all the better, I don't have problems. But figured if it can work just a tad better, what the hell.

I use Fram filters in my Ford truck, (PH8) because I can remember the # easy, and about any oil.....workin on 200k and 15 years and wish the rest of her was holding up as well as the ole V-8 under the hood. She's shot everywhere else.

I wanna know why or who gets their "Valves Adjusted" every 400 hours...or whatever they say. Does anyone do that on their Honda Civic, or Corolla??
Really?