Advice Needed

General boating discussion
GTM73
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:34 am
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Advice Needed

#1

Post by GTM73 »

First Timer on many fronts. Haven't posted on AAB before and haven't bought a boat before. Could use some advice from the experts out there.

I am looking for a boat to learn in. I didn't grow up boating or fishing but want my kids to have some opportunity on that front. We would use the boat a few months a year on the west coast of BC. Most likely between the Island and the Mainland. Fishing, Crabbing, Prawning and Cruising.

My wife is a big fan of the Grady White adventurer or seafarer or the Boston Whaler Conquest 235.

I am thinking of a 18-22 aluminum.

Rather than start with brands that I should consider I am wondering what style of boat people would recommend and why. What are the considerations for picking between a runabout, a Center console, a hard top etc. I think it is obvious but I don't have the experience and don't know what I don't know. I don't have a feel for cost considerations either.

Any help would be appreciated.
kmorin
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Re: Advice Needed

#2

Post by kmorin »

GTM73, welcome to the AAB.com Forum I hope lots of others will offer experience and their reasoning as advice to your questions.

First the age of your young people influences my suggestions for parents considering having a family boat. IF they're under 12 yr old? I'd get some old pressed metal knock about with a couple of very small horse engines and lots of spare props and couple of good wide faced hammers and let them learn in the rocks along the shore how to run and outboard skiff. Say and old Lund, Gregor, Starcraft in the <18' range - 12, 14' or 16' with a 5-10 hp outboard engine.

This allows them to spend time by the shore, landing in inlets, bays and bights in different chop, swell or rollers and from that learn. Not the end all for teens though. If the young people are boys, then there's often a little more attraction to exploring the beaches with a tiller handled motor skiff, compared to the young ladies who more often (as teens) are a little to aware of their nails and hair to spend time roughing it along the shores of BC's Inside Passage?

If the entire family will be crew not the younger crew on their own in a knockabout, then size becomes important- get as large a hull as your money will stretch. If the First Mate will be along, and she's not been raised commercial fishing that coast (??) then think cabin/hardtop to get her out of the weather and if at all possible an inside HEAD or boat mounted toilet; since ladies want to be able to use the facilities in some semblance of privacy, The boys can get by with a bucket if needed but in a mixed gender crew - ie. family??? the head is what allows Mom to make the second trip with you and the boys. And if the crew is all teens girls and Mom? either get the cabin and head or forget 'family' boating.

These rules of thumb are not meant to be impolite to the ladies, or to be disparaging but I've built a few boats, owned, skippered and crewed on more than a few- I'm just telling the truth as I've seen it demonstrated for nearly 6 decades on the water.

Use: the coast has weather changes in short time, much shorter than running time to shelter, shore and harbors. So the cabin in that area will be welcomed, for this reason alone. IN Florida, or southern latitudes in general boating in warm rain is wet but not bone chilling- along the BC coast if you get a child wet and can't dry them off and heat them up-soon- you risk their lives to exposure or the least colds, flu, and pneumonia all of which are purely 200% the Skipper's fault.

Open skiffs with either side or center console are more used to make short trips on your coast- unless undertaken by commercial fishermen who are working some kind of gear. Open skiffs are very much less expensive, compared to that same hull with more cabin accommodation but... they're no comparison for protection compared to the cabin. If you had four buddies, all adult sized men, who are serious rod and reel fishermen, and you're planning to go trolling or equivalent fishing methods in the area you've described then everyone is aware of how to dress. Further the absolute freedom of movement around the boat with a pole is perhaps enough to warrant this type of boat configuration but not if you've got Momma along. If one of the guys have too much liquid they can simply lean over the side or relieve themselves on deck and rinse out the freeing ports- not happening with the ladies.

Sit down windscreen or 'runabout' models may have a rag top, tip up cover frame and canvas. But they're still usually small for a head, and heater? There are, of course, 20-22's in this class but usually standing under the cover makes that canvas into a big enough handling head ache to render these models more compromise than solution. But, the rag top convertible cover with sit down helm does fit in the market or they wouldn't be selling (Hewescraft has popular models in this class).

Costs for most welded aluminum boats are in two main categories- volume builders who are focused on price point- conserving costs and sales prices: And- one off or more made to order boats that usually have higher prices. Not that a volume builder won't offer you a list of options to be built into their boats- cost adders that will move the final overall cost up to the same or more than the second group of builders' pricing - but.. the main difference is the 2nd group of builders is not concerned with their volume output as much- so they charge more for everything adding up to a higher final cost but for a more personalized build.

Why to the 2nd group of builders have a market? The more expensive plate boat market is usually supported by those who want more input into the overall design and build. That includes thicker scantlings, more customer ordered features actually created (in many cases) for that owner- not always a stock 'add-ons' but individually designed elements. If a volume builder were to slow their production down to take time (calendar and man hours) to do the same level of personal attention in the higher end plate builders' shop- the volume production line would be slowed or stalled and the company's profits would suffer.

If you're comparing plastic resin boats to metal boats its most important to compare new to used pricing. To do this, shop any given new boat dealer's pricing for comparable LOA and accommodations- you can't compare a full cabin in plastic resin to an open skiff in metal, as an example. Then find the used boating listing, the brokers, Craigslist, and other online sources of pricing. What you'll see is the metal is higher cost to begin, and remains more expensive. The plastic production boats are less expensive for comparable size to begin, and then drop like a stone in resale price because the plastic is water proof but not vapor proof so those resin composite boats water-log so they have a shorter life.

BUT... that said; most (95%+) women only see the level of finish- and plastic boats are sold based on finish as much as any other feature. Therefore, you may show her a 60,000$ used bare metal boat with very spartan metal interior surfaces, no paint, and very rough looking finish, while next to it in the harbor sits a 18,000$ 1983 resin & fiber "cabin cruiser" that has bunks, galley and head! She will only see the 42k$ in savings and miss the fact that you will use it for one run only to learn her hull is 'punked' and she uses 38 gal./hr to run on step- which is nearly impossible for the boat to get anymore! Your Mrs. will not think of this- she will only see finish and savings and want the plastic. Just life; the price factor for what's "there" will not be obvious unless you're familiar with boats. No, she will not see the plastic disposable has been on the market for 5 years, with a steadily dropping resale figure; no she will not see that you're next inline for a loss on that boat; and no, she will not understand why you can land the metal boat on any beach and can never land the plastic one!

I hope to have been informative without being discouraging? I hope you'll keep us informed as you shop and explore the boat market, and I'd be happy to try to answer any questions as you move along in your learning process. Most of all, I hope some of the more experienced family boaters in your area that are on the Forum will post their views as they'd have a better perspective on your use than I do?

Welcome to the Forum, thanks for your questions.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
GTM73
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:34 am
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Re: Advice Needed

#3

Post by GTM73 »

A bit more information will probably help.

Me and the three boys (8, 6 and a baby) are all land lubbers. I have been on fishing boats on the west coast my whole life but always as a passenger never as captain or anything close. My wife has spent plenty of time crewing sailboats along the way so knows much more than I do.

The goal is to get a boat we can all grow with. I need to learn how to handle it and get around for fishing and cruising to fun new spots while not smashing into anything.

I have a specific question..Looking at some fibreglass boats for layout like the Grady white seafarer or older Boston Whaler Conquest 235 they have a "hard top" option that isn't all sealed in like all the aluminum hard tops. Is there a reason for this? I haven't seen a single aluminum boat designed like that.
kmorin
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Re: Advice Needed

#4

Post by kmorin »

GTM73, the boys would have them most fun with a knock around skiff on the beaches for sure. That's the perfect age to pirate a largely unpopulated coast in a 'tinny' with oars and a small "kicker"- and that can happen with you and the First Mate relax on the hook in the bay and sip some adult beverages too.

The fact that Mrs GTM has sailed is very good news since she's probably seen a bucket and knows what they're for in some size boats? Also being wet and cold is not news and you won't probably need a 12VDC 'make-up mirror' all of which goes to make a woman with time on the water much more comfortable shipmate than those who're just coming offshore for the first time.

I think, but am not sure by your description that the 'cabins' or 'hardtops' you're discussing are perhaps the T-top or windscreen-on-console designs that are nationally sold? These designs are for the southern (warmer) latitudes where even the rain is warm compared to the BC coast in Sept. Pacific NW boats are a product of their market area and waters- water tight cabins are the norm where the water is colder and the wind a bit more constant.

If you saw a Gulf of Mexico welded aluminum boat they may have the wind deflection, more open design "weather helm" with a panel to block wind that stops short of the deck and a wind screen in three of four independent panels in a network of pipes, this is often called a T-top- if I understand your references and question. So, I'd say the two somewhat different design groups were a reflection of the ambient air temperature for the two different groups' cruising areas?

If you buy from a previous owner, don't be shy about offering to pay the fuel bill while he skippers you to a fishing trip- before you buy! The reason being that such an owner will have learned a lot out the boat's handling and may be willing to take time to show you how she behaves, like docking in a cross wind, skying the hook (unless there's a winch), trimming the power for longer runs or different loads. If you buy from a dealer, don't be shy about asking for local boating safety classes- the USCG used to have Auxiliaries located in many harbors and they often provided 'lessons' and help learning to 'drive' your boat safely. Not sure in BC, but would suggest there was some local organization of boat owners that are active in that type of volunteer organization that would actually help find someone to go out with you to learn some basics? (leave the family home- "learn the fire escapes before there's a fire"- no need to try to pay attention to the crew and the skipper's learning curve both at once!)

Here are some books you can find (used and very cheap online-- try Alibris.com) that will help fill in some basics like the 'rules of the road' on the water, and some basic boat handling ideas- all good to know and learn in the comfort of an arm chair instead of being yelled at in the harbor!!!
http://www.alibris.com/Chapman-Piloting ... atches=243
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?title ... ed&mtype=B
http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?title ... ok&mtype=B
http://www.alibris.com/Getting-Started- ... ok/2597984

Not needed, you can learn by doing, but they can't hurt you to read either.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
3f8
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Re: Advice Needed

#5

Post by 3f8 »

Our boat is a Stabicraft SC759. It was an open back cabin alloy boat. I closed it in. An alloy frame, but teak instead of alloy was used for the bulkhead. Here in Florida heat is an issue. I liked the open back, but needed some security at the slip. Also the sun and wind were hard on the canvas.The canvas looks good in the lower pic, but did not look like that when is was replaced.

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"It was the Law of the Sea, they said. Civilization ends at the waterline.
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RogueFanatic
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Re: Advice Needed

#6

Post by RogueFanatic »

GTM73, all good advice listed above, especially the Chapman on Piloting. I was in a similar position as you with 2 kids and wanting to explore Puget Sound with the family, a grill bbq on the railing and a crab pot puller on the other side. I have owned 5 boats since then, both NON ALLOY and alloy. There are advantages/ disadvantages to both. For me, it came down to ease of portability and the economy of an outboard. I now have a 19' JetCraft Salmon Master with an 18 degree V, and a 140 Suz 4 stroke. It is not perfect but it checks off a lot of boxes, it's safe and dry and has suspension seats and I can afford to fuel it and pull it with a Yukon. Take a few rides in some different boats and see what you would feel comfortable pulling, backing up, and coming up to the dock with the wind and tide going cross-wise.
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