Pipe bender

Mods and custom builds
User avatar
aluminumdreamer
Donator '10
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:45 pm
14

Re: Pipe bender

#26

Post by aluminumdreamer »

I got a quote on 5086 sch 40. pipe in 3/4", 1", 1 1/4", 1 1/2". All 20' lengths, for one of each size the total was $769.45. Four pieces of pipe total. That would be fine if I were building stuff to sell, I would just factor it into the cost of the finished product. But I am just looking to build some stuff for myself and it's hard to explain to the wife how I'm saving so much money by doing it myself. I am sure the price would be better if I were dealing with a larger order, but I'm just not ready for that yet. Like I said earlier, I'll just have to be sure of what I want to build, and make a good materials list, so I'm not wasting anything.

Nate :beer:
welderbob
Donator ,15
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:14 am
15
Location: Holbrook,NY
Contact:

Re: Pipe bender

#27

Post by welderbob »

Try getting a quote on 6063 pipe. Its fine for hand rails and thing above the waterline. By a sheet of 5052 and cut the strips that you need from it. Some time you can buy a drop off from a whole sheet. Generally 5052 is good for most things except for the hull

Last boat that Yarde Metals cut for us was $2.75/lb for 5086 and $2.25 /lb for 5052 .(cutting charge included) 6061 extrusions have been around $2.00/lb depending on the shape (thing with holes seem to cost more). Its all about the weight of the whole order. They don't want to sent the truck out for one piece

Welderbob.
User avatar
aluminumdreamer
Donator '10
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:45 pm
14

Re: Pipe bender

#28

Post by aluminumdreamer »

Thats what I needed to know, I thought I should build everything out of 5086. I will check those other alloys out, and see where I'm at.

Thanks

Nate
User avatar
aluminumdreamer
Donator '10
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:45 pm
14

Re: Pipe bender

#29

Post by aluminumdreamer »

So this is my new bender! I built the stand and assembled it tonight. I drilled a hole in my basement floor to sink a 2" receiver into, then built a stand to fit it.

The bender is a JD Squared. I haven't tested it out yet, but I will tomorrow. It is a manual ratchet type bender, but has the option of adding hydraulics to it later if I want to.

I only have a 1" and a 1 1/4" die for now, but I think I will order the 1 1/2" die soon. Hopefully this will help my fabrication skills, and propel me to the next level.

More tools, I need more tools!

Nate
Attachments
receiver and a hole in the floor
receiver and a hole in the floor
bender.jpg (52.3 KiB) Viewed 11007 times
receiver in the floor
receiver in the floor
bender2.jpg (53.36 KiB) Viewed 11007 times
rough stand sitting in receiver
rough stand sitting in receiver
bender3.jpg (61.74 KiB) Viewed 11007 times
stand painted with parts of the bender mounted.
stand painted with parts of the bender mounted.
bender4.jpg (60.61 KiB) Viewed 11007 times
another picture of the bender on the stand
another picture of the bender on the stand
bender5.jpg (69.67 KiB) Viewed 11007 times
bender up close
bender up close
bender6.jpg (75.09 KiB) Viewed 11007 times
Treb5
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:31 am
13

Re: Pipe bender

#30

Post by Treb5 »

Beautiful new bender. What model JD Squared is it? Now that you have a good bender what are you going to do with that HF 12 ton you just bought? I have one of the HF like yours and I can't say much good about it. I have kinked plenty of pipe with it.

How much receiver tube did you use for the base and is that an epoxy that you used to set it with?

Post up some pic's when you can of this new bender in action, I am anxious to hear how it works for you.

Looks great. I need one of those in my garage.
User avatar
aluminumdreamer
Donator '10
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:45 pm
14

Re: Pipe bender

#31

Post by aluminumdreamer »

It is a JD Squared model 3.I used hydraulic cement to secure it to the floor. The stand is made of 4' of 2" X 2" square tube. It looks a little tall, but it actually feels like a good height while bending. I used it last night to bend a piece of 1 1/4" sch. 40 pipe 90 deg., and was amazed at the quality of the bend. No distortion, or kinking at all.

Seems like a quality tool for a fair price. Dies are expensive, but the bends are worth it.

Here is a picture of my first bend, I am going to try doing some more with it tonight.

Nate
Attachments
bend.jpg
bend.jpg (61.17 KiB) Viewed 11231 times
levidegroot
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:13 pm
11

Re: Pipe bender

#32

Post by levidegroot »

I have greenlee pipe bending kit I think 1.5" up to 4" if interested please email me

levidegroot226@gmail.com

Thanks
ehsvp
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 6:13 am
13

How to bend 1/2 pipe for bulwark sheer

#33

Post by ehsvp »

Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone had a good way to bend 1/2 pipe to conform to a bulwark sheer. The bend would start from the bow and stop about 12 feet later. The pipe is 6061-t6 1/4" wall aluminum pipe, 3" diameter. I was thinking about cutting the back side of the pipe where needed so it could conform the curve and tig welding the cuts closed. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Pipe bender

#34

Post by kmorin »

ehsvp, ordinarily that would be rolled with a pyramid roller guiding the operator either templates or putting the pipe up and down, onto the boat, and working below the sheer with the roller. You use the pipe sized dies and then a flat roller on the other side for 1/2 pipe, in your case you'd be rolling hollow to the 1/2 round so the flat is on top and the two powered rolls are the female 3" pipe 'hourglasses'.

Ribboning can work but it is quite a bit of work to weld back filling the kerfs in this size pipe. The good side of that chore is that sched.40 pipe is easier to TIG than smaller thinner material.

make a plywood template of the plan view curve of the bulwark and see if any local shops can roll the pipe in halves. If the pipe is not extruded as 1/2 pipe http://www.alascop.com/pdf/al/marine.pdf (third item down) and you'll have to saw the pipe, then make a good effort to belt sand the half's cut centerline edges in order to give as uniform an edge to the roller as possible.

pictures showing the work area - are welcomed.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
ehsvp
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 6:13 am
13

Re: Pipe bender

#35

Post by ehsvp »

Thanks for the information Kevin, it was appreciated.
ehsvp
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 6:13 am
13

Re: Pipe bender

#36

Post by ehsvp »

Kevin, I tried bending a section of pipe by ribboning and while it worked, the results were not as good as I'd like. The bends looked a little segmented, not one smooth arc. Is there any other kind of bulwark cap that is built up so I can adapt to the curve of the bow more easily? I'd really prefer something with a flat top so I can mount stainless steel railings.

The 1/2 pipe bulwark cap would be great if I had access to a roller but it still wouldn't give me the flat top I'm really hoping for.

Thanks in advance,


Bob
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Pipe bender

#37

Post by kmorin »

Bob, the ribboning has to be quite close together to give a smooth curve, the rewelding become extensive, all to get a 1/2 or full pipe if you put the other half of the pipe inside the bulwark?

There are no extrusions the size you're discussion with a flat surface that will not require forming or at least some extreme pulling and clamping to wrap around the bow gunwale/sheer of most conventional hull shapes. Without any drawings or pictures I can only guess what is needed, but...

You may try a flat plate, layout and cut to a concentric curve that is wide enough to give your flat top shape; then use the bulwark vertical to form the inside joint as an edge to edge fillet. Then on the outside you could put the pipe profile/extrusion as a liner, this would leave a void under the pipe when would have to be filled with a second plate somewhat matching the top one, but fit to the curve of the gunwale at a distance of the extrusion ht below the top.

This 'built up box' type of construction can be varied in several different arrangements to provide a large cross section rubrail/sheer guard/bulwark cap of different cross sections.

If you'd post an image of the work area, we can help get more specific.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
User avatar
goatram
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:53 pm
15
Location: Stanwood WA

Re: Pipe bender

#38

Post by goatram »

Bob The ring roller and Pipe Bender are relatively inexpensive from Harbor Freight. They even sell a shrinker stretcher an a metal bender for flat stock.
bend.jpg
bend.jpg (3.58 KiB) Viewed 10998 times
shrinker.jpg
shrinker.jpg (4.46 KiB) Viewed 10998 times
ring.jpg
ring.jpg (4.11 KiB) Viewed 10998 times
pipe_18609.jpg
pipe_18609.jpg (51.68 KiB) Viewed 10998 times
Use 6063 Alloy not 6061. the 6063 will bend with out breaking/cracking. HF has a joint Jigger that uses hole saws to fish mouth the pipe for easier fitting and welding
tubecutter17029.jpg
tubecutter17029.jpg (4.61 KiB) Viewed 10998 times
visit Youtube for the video's that show you how to minimize their short comings them while you use them
John Risser aka goatram
33' RBW with twin 250 Hondas (Aliens)
2015 Ford F350 Dually
Master of R&D aka Ripoff and Duplicate
ehsvp
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 6:13 am
13

Re: Pipe bender

#39

Post by ehsvp »

Thanks John, I may use these tools if I can't get a built up rub rail fabricated.

Bob
ehsvp
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 6:13 am
13

Re: Pipe bender

#40

Post by ehsvp »

Kevin, attached to this message you will find a picture of the bulwark for my boat. What I really wanted to do was to keep the rub rail cap on the outside of the bulwark and make it have a flat top so I can install SS railings. I was also thinking of your idea to fabricate the rub rail out of plate as you mentioned. Any good designs would be greatly appreciated.

Bob
Attachments
Bulwark
Bulwark
IMG_4701.JPG (46.53 KiB) Viewed 10997 times
tazmann
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:26 pm
13

Re: Pipe bender

#41

Post by tazmann »

Doing a sweep bend like that without a roll bender is a bit tricky and time consuming. What I usually do is put a mark every 6" and run it through the bender doing ever so slight bends at each mark then back through between marks and if more is needed back through again between bends.
Rather than odd shaped cap rail to bolt stainless railing too why not just keep it round and build the railing from aluminum pipe welded to the cap rail ? Not as shinny as stainless but looks good to me anyway and would eliminate the bolted dissimilar metals.
Couple tricks bending with the cheap HF bender 1 wrap the pipe in news paper or the likes where it goes in the die, keeps it from marring and keeps it snug in the die, helps keep it from sliding up the die and kinking 2 use springs on the inside the one you can buy from hardware stores 8" to 10" long with a diameter the just fits inside then make up a long handle with 1/4" rod and small nut welded to the end, slip the hooked end of spring through the nut and slide it into the pipe centering it on the bend after the pipe is bent screw the handle- spring into itself pulling at the same time so it will pull out, Keeps the pipe more round and the top of bend from flattening
I have done a lot of steel pipe and tubing bending with the cheap bender and here is the first one I did with aluminum pipe
1-1/4 sch 40 6061 T6 I was happy with the results it just took time
Tom
Attachments
arch 1 s.JPG
arch 1 s.JPG (54.52 KiB) Viewed 9821 times
arch 3.JPG
arch 3.JPG (87.54 KiB) Viewed 9821 times
User avatar
goatram
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:53 pm
15
Location: Stanwood WA

Re: Pipe bender

#42

Post by goatram »

Sweet looking.

Try that with 6063 Aluminum. With the 6061 you did not crack it? I have so I use the 6063.
John Risser aka goatram
33' RBW with twin 250 Hondas (Aliens)
2015 Ford F350 Dually
Master of R&D aka Ripoff and Duplicate
tazmann
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:26 pm
13

Re: Pipe bender

#43

Post by tazmann »

goatram wrote:Sweet looking.

Try that with 6063 Aluminum. With the 6061 you did not crack it? I have so I use the 6063.
Thanks
The 6063 was not readily available, would have had to special order so I tried the 6061. worked better than I
thought it would. I did a couple test bends first, one I heated and let cool to get the temper out but it didn't make much difference on the smaller pipe. I was told that anything larger than the 1-1/4" would need the temper taken out before bending or it will crack but I haven't tried it yet Bending slowly seems to help also
Tom
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Pipe bender

#44

Post by kmorin »

Tom, goatram, if you take the dies for aluminum pipe and polish them with fine sandpaper (gradually to 180-220grit) along the mid arch of the curve; mainly along the sides or 3:00/9:00 on the pipe, assuming the bottom of the die's round is 12:00....

...THEN lube the pipe EACH bend with Pam fried food spray, ( or any grease product) then there is not elongation grip to the die to tear the pipe wall. Most all bend breaks in 6061 come from the die's gripping the pipe and tearing the 6061 in elongation, and those breaks look like notch failures.

I regularly bend single shot 6061 T6 in a Greenlee 555 bender, and that includes single shot 180's in 2" sched 40. I have found that if I keep the sides of the dies super clean, lubed an smooth that 6061 bends fine. If I skip re-sanding any galls, or rolled-up gouges in the die's side walls, or don't lube the pipe and die before EACH bend, the very next try in the same length of pipe will 'break'. I also make sure the feed length roller is movable so its does not add tension to the pipe during the bend. Some of the benders I've seen have fixed feed dies instead of rollers, so as the pipe bend there's a high degree of tension instead of allowing free movement of the pipe around and into the bend.

The sanding I've done was with a flap sander in a drill and with a small Makita belt sander with a 1" belt. I've also used some plastic pipe with sand paper 3M 88 Contact Cement (tm) glued onto the surface to make a 'round file' for the dies.

I used to accept it as fact that 6061 pipe 'didn't bend, but I've been using this technique for a few years and had good success with dressed and lubed dies.

Now, I don't think the breakage is from brittleness; I think its from elongation tearing, if the pipe can move around the die it seems to me that 6061 bends fine. My thinking is that 6063 is more malleable and has much larger elongation factor before failure so it seem to work 'better' in a bender where 6061 breaks?

Tom, I think that slow bending helps because the pipe is allowed to feed into the bend and move around the die instead of tearing?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Last edited by kmorin on Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typos
kmorin
tazmann
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:26 pm
13

Re: Pipe bender

#45

Post by tazmann »

Hello Kevin
I am wondering if wrapping the pipe in news paper basically does the same as sanding and lubing ?
The bender I have is like the orange one from HF in a previous post, there not bad for the money but the dies
are on the cheap side "spread out after being used a bit " that's where the internal spring and wrapping in paper come in handy otherwise the pipe slips up the die about half way through the bend, kinks the bottom and flattens the top.
The outer rollers are rollers but they are one size fits all , I had trouble with them denting the 6061 so what I did was take a couple inches of 1-1/2" aluminum pipe, split it in half and slip it over the 1-1/4" at the roller contact points.
I have made a couple tube dies for it by taking plate and cutting a circle the size of radius I wanted, chuck it in the lathe and cut a 1/4 round inside radius in the outer plate corner then cut the round plate it half and weld it together , worked ok but time consuming
Tom
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Pipe bender

#46

Post by kmorin »

Tom, I'd say you're right the paper acts as a release or 'sticking prevent' so the pipe can move along the dies' length. The dies on the 555 Greenlee are cast aluminum, and while not exact, originally, they're too solid to move or change shape.

The roller follower I was mentioning was not the pull or pipe grip lead end of the bend- I was talking about where the pipe feeds into the die as it turns/pushes/advances. That roller on the 555 is often stuck as its not high quality, but some sheet plastic, sliced off a milk carton, or some work on the roller to keep it moveable seems to keep the tearing out.

I do get some small 'flattened' spot on 1-1/2" and 2" from the Greenlee 'grip' that holds the pipe to wrap it around the die. I have not replaced it with a longer piece of half pipe but that is a good solution to that end of the bender deforming just at the 0 deg of bend.

I do think all pipe, bent without mandrel, has some oval/flattening/distortion in cross section, and 6061 does best with mandrel bending. One of the local shops that does hand rails has a Bailey bender with roller outside dies and they bend 1-1/2" 6061 so it looks like forged butt weld fittings.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
User avatar
goatram
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19
Posts: 1959
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:53 pm
15
Location: Stanwood WA

Re: Pipe bender

#47

Post by goatram »

Thanks to the both of you for the lesson. I will try it. on my 6063 tube I have now. Kevin I also ordered up those MK Welding Tips that have Springs in them. for welding with the Python mig torch. The 350 MP is burning the wire back to the tip. I will not get them to Tuesday. Picked up 10 new tips for the Torch. using program 76 with the burn back set at 1.5. Do I increase or decrease that setting to stop the wire from melting to the tip?
John Risser aka goatram
33' RBW with twin 250 Hondas (Aliens)
2015 Ford F350 Dually
Master of R&D aka Ripoff and Duplicate
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Pipe bender

#48

Post by kmorin »

goatram, switch to Mode 40, please list all the configurations so we can discuss them

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic